Ep. 61 - French Whisky with Christine Cooney of Heavenly Spirits

Transcript

Drew (00:00:09):
Welcome to Whiskey Lore, the interviews. I'm your host, Drew Hannush, the Amazon bestselling author of Whiskey Lores Travel Guide to Experiencing Kentucky Bourbon. And today we're going to be traveling across the Atlantic Ocean. Well, and you might be thinking that we're going to Scotland or Ireland, but for this year I've decided the best thing to do is to help whiskey lore fans get introduced to a world beyond the traditional markets. And so my guest today is Christine Cooney, co-founder of Heavenly Spirits, which is a US distributor of French wines, cognac, armac, and today's subject French whiskey. And not only will we hear about the specific brands that she represents, like Aric and bae, but she's also going to introduce us to the history of French whiskey and we'll get to learn how big the industry actually is. I'm going to taste several expressions, including a repeated French whiskey, and you're going to find out why. In my opinion, France logically should be one of the best countries in the world for making single mal and blended whiskeys. So get ready to greatly expand your knowledge of the whiskey world as we jump right into this fascinating subject with Christine Cooney of Heavenly Spirits. Christine, welcome to the show.

Christine (00:01:32):
Thank you. Thank you drew. Thank you for having me. Yes, indeed. It is a very interesting subject because the French whiskey category is still considered new in the US even though we have been here for a few years. It's a trend that is in development right now, so it's a good thing to be talking about it at the time where a lot of consumers are more and more interested about whiskey and whiskey from everywhere.

Drew (00:01:58):
Yeah, absolutely. And you actually represent Armac and cognac brands as well, correct?

Christine (00:02:05):
Yes I've been in the business for 30 years. I hate to admit it now, but it's true and always mostly in the us. But 13 years ago, 14 years ago almost, my husband and I founded Heaven Spirits in porters of exceptional French spirits. So our focus, our portfolio focus is really on high end French spirits. Met by small producers who control everything from the raw material to the bottle and then the cells. So that's been our model, our mission. And in 2009, we became the largest importer of armc in the US accounting for 40% of all sales of AMAC in the us. So that drives our company msa, but we also have give big focus on all the other products in our portfolio. We have absent, we have all sorts of liquors and cordials and jeans. And so it is a fun ride and we really embrace the market and we meet a lot of people and it's been very good. So

Drew (00:03:14):
When did you first start hearing yourself? Cuz you're actually from France, from the cognac region. So when did you start hearing about French whiskey?

Christine (00:03:25):
Well, honestly, about 10 years ago. Okay. 10 years ago is when we first encounter OIC actually. And that's when we looked at it and investigated a little bit more and tried to see if there was something we could do here. We were waiting how this was going to go, how the quality was going to evolve. And then a few years after reflection, we actually took on Ric, and a couple of years ago we took on Bai. And to be honest with you, we're very solicited by other French producers of whiskeys right now. But like I said earlier, it is still an up and coming trend. So we try to progress slowly but surely and make the right choices.

Drew (00:04:19):
So the French whiskey industry, you represent one of the oldest or the oldest brand actually of mm-hmm. French whiskey. It comes from the, and I'm going to do my best at this, the VA gain distillery,

Christine (00:04:35):
Correct? Yes.

Drew (00:04:36):
Okay. And so this distillery actually has a storied history long before making whiskey. And so what was it producing before it was producing whiskey?

Christine (00:04:50):
Well, like you said, I, I can say that is at the origin of the French whiskey industry. Amri is produced by the distillery VA game and it's located in Britain, France. Now Vahan game has been making liquors, mostly liquors honey wine and some beers for 120 years at this point. But what happened in the eighties is that the liquor industry in France kind of fell out of popularity. People were not really drinking liquors, and so the distillery had to find some way to save itself to be able to continue living. And so Jean Lazu, who was the then owner of VA game took a trip to Scotland and when he came back, he had the idea of making whiskey. And sure enough in 1987 he produced his first blended whiskey and then a few years later he produced his first single malt. So Amari is really the pioneer of French whiskeys. It is, I would say the historic and quality reference in France. It gave also the impulsion for, to the whiskey making category in France. And now it happened to be a very dynamic industry producing 1.2 million bottles a year or so. Wow,

Drew (00:06:14):
Okay. That's a bit, yeah, we were talking because the number I saw was that there were 40 distilleries in France, but you say there's quite a few more now.

Christine (00:06:24):
Oh yes. I mean, 10 years ago there were five or six and <laugh>, now there's over a hundred. Wow. Producing, yeah, producing 92 labels. I mean, it's unbelievable. It's just every day, every day, almost every day I hear of a new distillery making whiskey. In France it's it's a little scary. But <laugh> fun, I guess mean all the distillers are trying to get on the bandwagon of making whiskey because whiskey is popular. So everybody wants to make some, it's one way to make money and we know how to distill in France

Drew (00:06:58):
Sort of describe Varon gain and what its size is, what we call this a large producer or in terms of Scottish versus as a reference probably

Christine (00:07:11):
In France, Varon game is the largest producer of whiskey at this point by far, really, I would say. And they've been growing every year. But to give you things in perspective, I mean, Varon game is basically comparable to Keman in Scotland. So that gives you an idea because Keman is small, so it gives you an idea of how we compare to Scotland Distilleries,

Drew (00:07:38):
It's also, well, and Holman's also a farm to glass distillery, is there mean, we're talking about French terroir and really getting a taste of what France is in terms of grain. And grain is something that we don't always associate with France. But France is actually a large exporter of grain across the globe.

Christine (00:07:59):
Yes. I think it's the number one exporter in Europe already.

Drew (00:08:03):
Is it? Okay.

Christine (00:08:04):
Yes. And we produce a lot of good grain in France. A lot of the best better one come from the eastern part of France, they toward the champagne area. And in fact, that's where the Scottish supply themself with grain, that's where they take their grain from. So it's a great reference. And Amalric also takes its grain from there. And the teir is actually kind of a big debate. Personally, I'm a little split about it so I keep listening to other opinions because I like to listen to everybody, first of all. On one hand I agree that teir the soil in which the grain grows can impact the final product, especially if the teir is something very unique like a volcanic earth or soil. That's something. But I also joined David Roci, the now current director, manager of Al Mauric, in thinking that the climate the where the whiskey, where the whiskey's aged, the type of steels, the type of wood even the yeast have more impact on the final product than probably the teir does because whiskey gets transformed a lot during the process. And so the Teir, I think we lose the Teir origin as we process with all the different steps of making whiskey, which is different from making Brandis. So it's a debate and I'm listening.

Drew (00:09:34):
Yeah, it's interesting because I did a tasting of <inaudible> and they had three different types of barley that they used, some from or the islands, some from Inverness, which is sheltered to some from Isla. And two of them were just in bourbon casks. So you really had an even kind of view of things being distilled in the same distillery and using the same kind of materials other than the grain. And you could tell a difference, but it's just one piece of the whole pie puzzle. Like I say, if you do a sherry cast finish like they did on the ILO barley, then it kind of throws another wrench in the works there. And you're not quite sure how much influence is coming from one thing versus the other, so, exactly. Yeah. Well, and when I think of France, France has so many different types of terrain because I've traveled down in the maritime Alps area and then up to the Sau Lorraine area and into Champaign. I haven't been up into Brittany, which is where Ric is, but just in the places that I've been, there is a lot of diversity in the landscape in France.

Christine (00:10:58):
Oh, absolutely. I mean, look, even within the cognac region, we have six different, and you look at the soil from six different terroirs and they clearly look all different. So yes, we do have that. But again, in brandy making, it does have more impact than in the whiskey making, I believe.

Drew (00:11:17):
So with all this grain around, why did the French avoid making whiskey for so long?

Christine (00:11:25):
Well, there's actually a few elements to that question. I mean, in the early 20th century and since the 13th century, but early in the 20th century, the French had developed a reputation for making great wines and great brandies. The French were drinking a lot of wine, and the brandies and the spirits in general were not that popular. But at the same time, the whiskeys that were in France at the time, in the early 20th century and up to the mid mid-century, they were mostly really blended whiskeys of sometimes questionable quality. So the French were not interested in that. But then toward the seventies, things started to change. The French market got flooded with newer and better whiskeys from Scotland and from the US as well. Whiskey drinking became a thing, became a trend, became popular trend in France, especially as it was also glorified by the Hollywood movie business.

(00:12:36):
So I clearly remember my parents buying whiskeys from the US and bourbon and all and kind of bragging about it when they had dinner parties on Saturday as to the newest thing they bought. And it just became trendy. And everybody was thinking about those Dallas series where they always had a whiskey glass in their hand. That's something that's an image that stayed in us. And that was really, I think it was a good impact on French starting to think about whiskey. And so also at the same time, you had those big dream group like <inaudible> and La Martinique who had financial interest in those big companies in Scotland and in the us. So they flooded the French market. And so there was easy access to better whiskeys, more interesting whiskeys. And France started to really love the single mal, but the French didn't go into whiskey making right away either. Why? Because they were drinking the Scottish whiskeys and the Scottish whiskeys were pretty good, so why bother? We became complacent in a way. We became complacent and thinking, why should we bother? But money always speaks, and at some point they realize, well, we could make more money if we started to make whiskeys. So when you have a question, always look for the money part.

Drew (00:14:03):
Yeah. Well I guess the other thought was that they've got all these stills that they're using for making brandies and cognac and Exactly. Can you shift from one to the other without messing up what you've got?

Christine (00:14:19):
Well, you can on certain points here, you can, but you, because steels do get clean periodically at least once a year, even if you make only one thing. But they do get clean. And some of the you're, some of the distillers thought, well, I distill cognac or AMAC from November or December to March after March. I can't distill my cognac anymore, so what am I going to do the rest of the year? Whoa, I can make whiskeys. And that's also an important point, right? Absolutely.

Drew (00:14:51):
Yeah. So if we talk about am Mork and we talk about the first of all, the origin of the name, there's actually a park in the area that it is that it's kind of just a respell of the name, a more regional park there. It's in Brittany. And so it's kind of an interesting name. So it's kind of nice to know where the origins of those names come from.

Christine (00:15:22):
Well, I believe it's a Celtic name. I mean Brittany East, part of the Celtic history, culture language even the climate is the same as England or Scotland. It's just a little bit warmer, but a lot of it is part of the same plate geographically too. So a lot of the names in Britain are Celtic names or Celtic origin and Armika believe I I, I don't remember if I researched that really in depth, but I believe Amek is Catholic. And yes, it comes from the forest of Amek, which is nearby Lanyon where the distillery is located. And actually maybe I'm jumping ahead, but that forest of armory about 12 years ago, lik distillery started to investigate about the oaks that grow into that forest. And they started to do some experiment with making barrels from the oak that grew in that forest. And they realized it was actually excellent wood that gave the product different type of taste for various reasons, the type of grain that it is. And so I believe now they are the only distiller in France who is allowed to use the wood from that forest to make their own barrels.

Drew (00:16:39):
And is that,

Christine (00:16:40):
Well, that's something very unique.

Drew (00:16:41):
And what's the name of the oak?

Christine (00:16:46):
French oak. Okay. But I don't know what exactly the scientific name for this oak is, but I kept seeing, it's a oak that is

Drew (00:16:55):
Allowed. I kept seeing the name limousine or something like that.

Christine (00:16:59):
No, no. So limousine is from the limousine forest in the center part of France. Oh, okay. That's the oak that is used mostly for baking wine or also for the cognac producers. They use a lot of limousine oak from the central part of France. So that is a totally different forest. The oak coming from the OIC forest have a tighter grain and it gives more spice to the product, to the whiskey.

Drew (00:17:25):
You've just answered a big question when we go through and do these tastings, I was like, this is really interesting cuz it's a, it's across the whole line and it was a spiciness. Yeah. So we'll talk a little bit about that once we get into that. So if somebody was traveling to, cuz I'm a traveler and I love going to Scotland and I'm about to go to Ireland and go to a bunch of different distilleries over there. Is there a industry that's growing up of where they're doing tours at these distilleries? So you can kind of get a feel for French wine, I mean French whiskey, see how natural it is to sing French wine? Yeah, yeah.

Christine (00:18:08):
Yes. Some of the bigger distilleries have what we call a visitor center. We've seen a few RIC has actually built a new visitor centers two years ago. It's a state of the art visitor center with tasting room and really, really well done all in wood. And it's beautiful. They receive, I can't say a number, but they have busloads of people coming through that distillery visitor centers all the time. And they welcome them because this is the best way to get the word out that French whiskey can be good and it's worth trying, but only the bigger one really have visitor centers. I don't think it's as important as the distilleries in Scotland. I think there's more tourists going to the distilleries in Scotland, maybe because they're more famous at this point. But in France we're starting to see more and more visitor centers. Now

Drew (00:19:07):
I think there's a hesitation sometimes American travelers are nervous about going to France, how will I be accepted? And the rest, I love traveling in France and I always tell people as long as how to say thank you MEK and play please and oi, you're in good shape. Mean people tend to open up and be more friendly when you at least approach them in French.

Christine (00:19:32):
Absolutely. Absolutely. That's true.

Drew (00:19:35):
So in terms of a brand new industry that is growing up, cuz we're talking 35 years or so of history in single malts, now they're being a little over 20 years in terms of age. In the US we're finding this a lot with states like Tennessee, Texas, Colorado, they're all now emerging with these number of distilleries popping up. And the question becomes, are there rules for French whiskey? Are they following the EU rules? And is there any kind of organization that's working right now on trying to bring about French whiskey rules?

Christine (00:20:22):
Yes luckily, yeah, I say luckily, I say luckily, but because with all those new French whiskeys coming out I have to say some of them are not that good. The rules, some people try to make whiskeys, they've never made whiskeys. So they try out, they experiment. Unfortunately, after the third year on the dot, they start selling their whiskeys. And either they have not been met properly or they haven't been aged enough. But I have tasted some things that are really should not be on the market unfortunately. So I said, luckily yes, there is some regulation on the way. It's a very slow process. But in 2016 a group of producers actually created founded the Federation of French Whiskey, whiskey de France. And with the main objective is to define and regulate the whiskey making in France also to fight against counterfeit because we all know that the label made in France sells. So we have to always be very careful with that. And also to promote French whiskey. Now the promotion part of it is still a little bit lacking in my mind. They're still trying to figure out the regulations first. And that's very difficult because like you said, it has to be somewhat compliant with the European Union regulations. In terms of the example of ric we are very lucky because there's two igs in France that have been granted for whiskey making. The first one was Brittany. So Brittany got their IGP three years ago.

Drew (00:22:02):
And what is an igp? Is that a region?

Christine (00:22:04):
IGP is a geographical Appalachian in a way. Okay. It's like an aoc, but a lower standard, lower rules, less, more lenient, more lenient. AOC is very strict. IGP is indication of geographical protected area, something like that. Okay. So Britney got hit Appalachian. It's a stamp. It's a stamp of approval. And the R rules are fairly lax still. I mean, in Britain for example, you can use nine types of grain to make the whiskey but the entire production has to be done in Britain and the whiskeys have to age in oak. So as you see, it's a small regulation, but at least it does something. The second IGP came for Elsas in the eastern part of France, and they also have their own sets of regulations. And little by little the federation is trying to put in place some regulations. Even if they lax, it'll prevent from having some really bad products on the market, I think.

Drew (00:23:12):
Yeah. So is it something like three years to be called a French whiskey? Yep. Okay.

Christine (00:23:18):
Yeah, that's kind of standard. They stick with the rest of the world on that.

Drew (00:23:24):
And interesting too, to think there's such a trend right now in finishing whiskeys or in double maturation and using different types of barrels. And you would think there are lots of different types of barrels that could be used in France. Yeah. You think they would try to say, Hey, let's stick with using aging just in barrels that come from France rather than going to Spain and going outside for maybe specific designations of whiskeys.

Christine (00:23:58):
Well, they use all sorts of barrels. Mean as in France, we make so many different wines and spirits that we have a choice. I mean, it's unlimited choice. And yes, the bourbon cast, ex bourbon cask and the egg cherry casco are usually the main ones. But when you go, I mean, it's the fun part really because for example, when you go to Rik Distillery, when you enter the sellers on one of the wall, you have, I call it the experimental wall. You have a multitude of barrels and they all have they're all different barrels. So you have pinot de sha hunt from cognac, you have river result, you have banus, you have kok, you have rum, you have all sorts of different finishes. And this is really, really the fun part, I think, because they can experiment with a lot of different barrels and so do other producers as well. But Amik has a wall of it, so it's really fun.

Drew (00:24:55):
So I'm going to start diving into some of these whiskeys and we can kind of talk through each. And you sent me

Christine (00:25:05):
That's a good point. I don't remember what I sent

Drew (00:25:07):
You. Yeah, you sent me a wide variety here. Okay. I, I'll tell you right off the bat, we'll start with the flagship, which is the Brighton Classic single Mall.

Christine (00:25:19):
Yes.

Drew (00:25:20):
Okay.

Christine (00:25:22):
So well, the classic is actually it's like you said, it's the wait, it's the entry level, it's the number one. It's the first one in the core line of the ric line. It is actually a vatting of different whiskeys that have been aged both in bourbon of that have whiskey that've been aged in bourbon cast and others that have been aged in Sherry cask second field. And then they put those barrels together in a way. I'm not sure which one. I thinks it's 40%, 60% one of the bourbon and the other one of the cherries. So it's really a lighter type of whiskey. It's more on the oh, let me taste with you. Very

Drew (00:26:06):
Nice. That's a perk of your job. Is it not <laugh>?

Christine (00:26:10):
Right. Then like I said, it's 11 in the morning or it's almost even 30 now before lunch. It's the perfect time. Perfect time to taste, actually. So this one has bread, like bread dough. Don't forget, AMUIC is located five miles away from the sea. So it has a lot of the influence of the sea. So you have that little bit of iodized nose at the beginning. Yeah, it's really soft. It's got a little honey. It's very fruity. It's got a touch of spice, but it's really, really mild. It's has a little citrus as well.

Drew (00:26:53):
Yeah, I pull in, actually, I get some of the maltiness from the grain as well as a little apple in that as well. So

Christine (00:27:04):
It's really yes, like a spirit, like fresh spirit, fresh malt a tinge of smoke. Yes, you're right.

Drew (00:27:15):
Yeah, the smoke is really interesting. And to your point, I had to look up on a map just to try to get my bearings on where you're located. And it's exactly where I fly over when I'm coming into the continent from America. It's that very first strip of land up in the northwest corner. So as I looked at that, I thought it's almost a no-brainer that if you're going to be talking about Ireland and Scotland and what they get on the west coasts of their countries in terms of their whiskeys, that there would have to be elements of that in your whiskey. Yes,

Christine (00:28:00):
Yes. And it's interesting because it's a lot like the Scottish climate in a way. I mean, it rains, it's a lot of wind. I always joke with David and I say, I yet have to see the sun over there. I've been there three times and I haven't seen the sun mean maybe I saw a glimpse of it one day, but I mean that was it. But the distillery is actually located nearby the sea, and it has its own water source filtering through Grae soil. Again, very similar to Scottish type like the highland. The only difference is that because we are a little lower on the scale on the world, in the world, on the globe, we are a little bit warmer, which is good for the aging process. So I really sense the honey in here.

Drew (00:28:49):
Oh yeah. And then where do you think the smoke is coming from?

Christine (00:28:53):
Well, if you listen to, David will say that everything happens in the barrel aging. And also the type of yeas they use for the fermentation. They use two kinds of yeast and one actually gives a lot of aromas. So there's a lot of different reasons and ways to get a little bit of a smoke at the end. I'm not a distiller, so I don't really know everything. I am also not a whiskey expert. I have to declare that I'm still learning. This was one of my most recent spirit category that I had to learn a lot about but a tinge of smoke at the end. It's, David believed that a lot of this happens and is happening as they age the product and how they

Drew (00:29:46):
Age it. And then on the pallet, oh, I get a lot of fruit. I get a lot of that kind of apple stone fruit kind of a flavor. A little lemon comes in. Maybe that's the citrus that I'm picking up. Sometimes I get that from grain. But the one thing that really stands out to me is this warming effect of this spice that comes in on the finish. And you think that's coming from the wood that you're getting from that forest?

Christine (00:30:18):
No, no. This one has no wood from that Ric

Drew (00:30:22):
Forest. Does it not? Okay.

Christine (00:30:23):
This one is exclusively bourbon cask and eggs cherry cask.

Drew (00:30:27):
Oh, okay.

Christine (00:30:27):
And the cherry is only the second field. So the cherry is not too prominent, it's just there for the fruity part of it, I think. But I think the spice comes the small spice, the teeny spice that you feel comes from the bourbon cask. Okay. I think that's where it come

Drew (00:30:42):
From. Very interesting. I look for this cuz I was doing some tastings of some single pot still whiskey and the special way that that's made. And there was a pepperiness that came from the grain and it was a really interesting note. And I had five samples and all five samples had that same exact thing. And they were all single pot whiskeys. So it could be that it's coming from the grain as well. Just depends.

Christine (00:31:10):
It's true. There's so many elements to acquiring different taste. Also, Ric is double these steel. It was the first whiskey in France to be double these steel. They have two parts, two steels. One of them is 6,000 liters, which is the first one that the whiskey goes into. And then the second one is half the size 3000 liters. And that's for the second pass. So it's very interesting even the way they drop the grid in the water in three different types, three different steps with different water level water warmth level, I, it's a lot of things impact the product in the final product, really. So it's interesting.

Drew (00:31:53):
Have you had the chance to go over there and watch and go through the process?

Christine (00:31:57):
Yes. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. Yeah,

Drew (00:31:59):
It would be fun to see because yeah, you go to Ireland, they're triple distilling. Most everybody in the United States is double distilling or using column stills. But I have run across a couple of distilleries that do single past distillation, but it's really rare. And so it's interesting to hear that in France. I guess that comes from cognac, distilling and brandy distilling just one time distilling.

Christine (00:32:26):
So I mean in cognac, in cognac we double distill by law. It's mandatory in armac we single distill. And again, that gives completely different results.

Drew (00:32:35):
And this is my ignorance on the brandy side side of things because I've not really gone through that yet. So yeah, very interesting.

Christine (00:32:44):
Okay. I mean, am still learning plenty of things too. So

Drew (00:32:49):
The second one we have here is the single malt sherry cask.

Christine (00:32:55):
So the sherry cask has been aged I think five years in bourbon cask. Bourbon cask of course. And then an extra eight month, eight to 10 months in x sherry cask orso. But this time it's the first field cherry cask. So okay, orso means it has their barrels that have aged cherry for 12 months. And then the first feel, of course is the one that is used as soon as the cherry is empty, they use this barrel to put the whiskey in it. So it gives of course more of the cherry flavors. And this one is clearly more on the cherry. It is actually, I love it. It's quite buttery. It coats the pad with that creamy texture. It's a little bit oily. It has more of a candy fruit flavors.

Drew (00:33:53):
Yeah, I noticed that right on the nose as soon as I pulled it up. It's tough when you're going through a bunch of different whiskeys and you're trying to give each one due and then you're trying to compare it to the one that you had previous to it. And when I hear Sherry and Oloroso, I think dark fruits, but there is a really nice bright fruit note that just hit my nose just as soon as I pulled up to it. I almost wanted to say it was almost a jelly bean effect there at first when it hit my nose. But I do smell those other notes that I expect out of an Oloroso sherry cask as well.

Christine (00:34:34):
It also has a sense of cocoa bean or dark chocolate, or

Drew (00:34:41):
Again, I get a little bit of that malt character in there as well, which is nice. And a little

Christine (00:34:47):
Char, not as much as on the

Drew (00:34:48):
First one. And a little char I think from the bourbon barrels as well.

Christine (00:34:55):
I love it. I think it's very creamy. I just think it's a very approachable it has a little bit more texture than the classic. It's a little bit more powerful than the classic, but at the same time, it coats the palette in a creamy buttery, where I personally really love it

Drew (00:35:14):
For having had so many different types of whiskeys that have been aged in all laso sherry barrels. This is one of the most unique I think that I've tasted because it doesn't feel like there's a lot of other stuff getting in the way. It's really kind of highlighting those notes. There is a great note that I'm pulling out of this as well, which is really interesting, but then it just has that milky consistency to it, which is really nice.

Christine (00:35:44):
And the thing is that it really stays with you even after you're done tasting. It just stays with you. And it has a little bit more power, a little bit more yeah, it's fuller. Yeah, I really

Drew (00:35:57):
Like it. Nice clean, clean finish on that. And I would say well, my question would be how long do you think these are being aged in those barrels?

Christine (00:36:10):
So the core line classic cherry and double maturation, that's the core line of the line. They really are age about six years including the finish. So the cherry was I think five and a half years in bourbon cask, ex bourbon cask. And then another eight months in Sherry Cas first field. So that's about six years. The classic was also six years, five, six years. And then the double mat that we're testing now is more like 10 toward the seven years because it has, so the double maturation, which is the most powerful of all three has now we're talking about that French oak from the forest of oic. Yeah. It has four full years, four to five years of that oak in from the forest of oic. And again, that oak they found after experimenting would give more spices and actually more fruit as well. So it's really which is kind of typical when you have a tight grain wood, it develops more spice, so in the product. So it's very typical, but they really enjoy that and they continue to use it for many, many of their product. In fact, they just put out a quality that is exclusively aged in that ric Oak. And I think that's a first. I mean, they keep experimenting with things, but I haven't tasted this one yet. I haven't had this privilege yet. Yeah, it's fairly new. I'm hoping to taste it when we go to French next month.

(00:37:46):
So yes, the double maturation is called double maturation because it has 45 years in that french oak. And then it has two additional years in, again, cherry cask first fill or so cherry cast first feel. So now you have this powerhouse united, this almost competition between the french oak and the cherry cask. And they really come to a beautiful, beautiful compound. And it's the most powerful of the three. It's the one that has the most taste. I think I sent you one of those.

Drew (00:38:18):
You sent me little bottles that said the classic on 'em. And then you sent me this bottle back here. Is that

Christine (00:38:25):
The double mat? Yes. Okay. Double. So yeah, that is the old packaging. Actually now they change. This is the new packaging. The rest of the line is all like this.

Drew (00:38:34):
Okay. All

Christine (00:38:35):
Right. And actually the last batch that we just received is now certified organic. Oh, actually, okay. Yeah, we have the stamp, the organic stamp on the back. Very

Drew (00:38:47):
Nice.

Christine (00:38:49):
And so we are really excited because well, I'm not saying organic is everything, but organic is an additional feature I would say. And it's good. Yeah. So even in the nose, I mean you can say this one has a lot of more going on. Yeah.

Drew (00:39:07):
Well you know what? I was tasting the other one, I was tasting this when we were talking about the classic, so maybe that's why I was picking up that.

Christine (00:39:16):
Oh, okay. Cause I wasn't sure where that pepperiness came from, but I sent you the classic I You

Drew (00:39:22):
Did. And it's okay. And it's not around me, so I will taste that later on re-listen. But yeah, that's why I was getting the pepperiness on this one because we're talking about two slightly different whiskeys here.

Christine (00:39:36):
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean one of 'em is at the end, the other one is at the other end. So it's really different. I mean the classic is just lighter, easier to drink but it has all that honey

Drew (00:39:47):
I get a lot of baking,

Christine (00:39:48):
The double maturation,

Drew (00:39:50):
I get a lot of baking spices on the nose on this one also, which is really nice.

Christine (00:39:54):
And that comes from the amik wood. Yeah.

Drew (00:39:57):
Okay. Yeah, I'm up with you now. I'm on the right. We're nosing the same thing. <laugh> tough when you have six to seven different whiskeys to go through.

Christine (00:40:08):
This one also has you feel the IO dyes there, you have that salted butter, caramel butter, it's coming at the end. You have that. It's really

Drew (00:40:19):
And then I get that citrus comes back in too.

Christine (00:40:22):
Yeah.

Drew (00:40:23):
Very nice. There's a nice lemony finish on it that I like with that pepper. And the pepper just kind of hangs with you for a short time, but then it dissipates pretty quickly, so

Christine (00:40:35):
Because the other flavors take over. Yeah, absolutely.

Drew (00:40:38):
Yeah. Very tasty. Very tasty whiskey. So the next one I have is the Brighton Single Malt Armon Y. Yes. So let's talk about Armon y because my introduction to Armon y was at the Iron Root distillery in Denison, Texas because they are lovers of cognac. And so they do a lot of finishing in cognac barrels, and they're just obsessed by the French wine industry because they come from the area where tv, Munson, the guy who came over and helped graft the vines to save the industry over there came from Denis and Texas. So they have that tie in to cognac. And so they gave me a description of what the difference was between Armac and cognac, but I would rather hear it from somebody who has that background and understands the differences.

Christine (00:41:42):
Well, somebody once, Tony, a very short way of describing the difference between nominee and cognac, and I keep putting it back out there because it could be a long seminar to talk about the differences. We give seminars on those two products, and that's a two hour seminar. But somebody said, well, if you have only one sentence to say, what do you say? So I say that cognac is more like Mozart while Armac is more like Mikes Davis. So I'm hoping, I think that conveys really what the differences are. Cognac is very precise clean text textbook where armac is just a little bit more expressive, fancy and expressive and rustic. So I think this is really reflects the difference if I have only 10 seconds to talk about it.

Drew (00:42:45):
Right, exactly. Well, and your definition is not far from what theirs is that, I mean, so what is that? I think, I don't remember exactly what the reference was, but it was something like a fine wine compared to a Mus bourbon. It's not by as many rules. And so it has the ability to be a little rougher in terms of, and rougher is probably not exactly the best term, but you know, can expect

Christine (00:43:14):
A little bit more rusty. Yeah,

Drew (00:43:15):
A little bit rust, more rusty rust, the term I was looking for. Absolutely. So what is the makeup of this whiskey then, in terms of its aging?

Christine (00:43:25):
So this was an interesting story. As I mentioned earlier, we are the largest in import of AMAC in the us. And so when we visited, the first time we visited the distillery arm I said to David, I said I see all this wall of barrels here. I said, wouldn't that be nice if you could experiment with a NOAC finish and we could make this armac coming from one of our producers, so to have a cross promotion. And he looked at me and he said, no, I'm not so sure that would be a good idea. I don't know what almanac would bring to the whiskey. And he was kind of lukewarm about it. And so I said, well, I mean, that's just a suggestion. So time goes on. And then two years later he calls me and he said that Almanac finish actually tastes pretty good.

(00:44:16):
And I said, I can't believe it for two years you hid this from me, you actually did it. And now you tell me it's actually pretty good. So it was a funny story. I was like, I thought it was a funny story. We were very, very happy about it. We crossed promotion with dac, which is the oldest house in Armac. In Baac. And so he bought a couple barrels from dti, Galong, another word, another one whose name is difficult to pronounce, but and then he did it. And so it was quite of a very old barrel. The barrel didn't have too much to give and that's why he left it there for two years. But it was a single task that we wanted to experiment with and have something to talk about because we talk about Armenia all the time and we want to talk about whiskey even more. So it was an interesting concept that might evolve with different ways of applying it. But

Drew (00:45:21):
I'm assuming that these are probably the tougher ones to get in the states.

Christine (00:45:25):
Oh, impossible. Right now it's impossible. In fact, I had somebody asking me for six to eight barrels of armac that were age, and none of my other producers, none of my producers were able to do that. I was able to get few years back, I was able to get a barrel for my own use in my home so I could have a barrel in my bar. But really since then, it's been impossible because barrels are very rare now. Nobody throws them out unless they're completely dismantled or leaking. And so it's impossible to get Arma barrels. Really? Yeah, they don't wanna give them that away. So this has been aged in bourbon cask, bn cask again for five years, I believe, and then an extra two years in Armac cask. And so it's interesting because that armac cask was actually Gascon oak. Gascon Oak is the oak that is used in not only, but lot of producers use a lot of Gascon, Gascon Oak and dti. Garong specifically uses pretty much a hundred percent gask at this point. So gas koc has a tighter grain gas koc gives more spices, gives more colors. So it's interesting to have done this type of experiment.

Drew (00:46:45):
Yeah, I actually get some

Christine (00:46:47):
Has a beautiful

Drew (00:46:47):
Nose. I actually get some tropical fruit notes out of the nose on this, along with the smoke that smoke comes back in.

Christine (00:46:57):
But in the taste at the end, you taste that gas milk with spice and queen's jam and a little bit of leather, roasted coffee beans a little dark chocolate. You feel all that in the taste. And that comes toward the end. Wow.

Drew (00:47:16):
Yeah, even a little tobacco in there.

Christine (00:47:20):
Yep.

Drew (00:47:21):
Very nice. But then it has this floral sense to it. And again, just a very nice flavorful, a little lemon coming in there. Again, these are the notes that kind of really strike my palate. But yes, there may be this feeling that because the French whiskey industry is still somewhat young, that there might be rougher whiskeys coming out. And as you say, there will be producers that are just throwing, it's wild west, they'll throw whatever out there. But I mean, these are all very nicely refined and complex whiskeys, which is wonderful to know. And so it makes me wonder where is French wine or whiskey being sold mostly? What areas countries seem to be most interested in French whiskey? Or is it still kind of a state secret as they say

Christine (00:48:24):
In the [inaudible] example Rik. I mean, as of last year, they were selling their 85% of their production in France and 15% in the export market. It's not easy to export French whiskey because again, French whiskey is not a known, a known category worldwide. It is slowly becoming part it of the world whiskeys categories, which is expanding. But within the world category the French category is still kind of trying to make its name. And it's not been easy. I see that on menus of restaurants when they have the world whiskeys and you have the world whiskeys, you have Irish, you have Scottish, you have Japanese, you have Taiwan, you have Indian. But French is nowhere and it's still hard to do. Or sometimes you have world whiskey and French is not even in there at all. So it's still a work, something. We're trying to work on a work in progress.

(00:49:29):
We have to just keep doing podcasts, tastings trade shows. I mean, the thing is that every time somebody taste, I mean, haven't had anybody telling me Ric is a bad whiskey. I mean every time I taste a sample, Amik anywhere, consumers or distributors or anywhere, people are like, wow, wait, what part of Scotland is that? I said, it's from France. Britney, what part of lan? And they keep saying it twice. And I said, no, it's not Lan. Yeah. So someone said, well, it's a Scottish French whiskey. I said, no, it's not a Scottish French whiskey. It's a French whiskey. What do you mean? I said, it's like

Drew (00:50:07):
It

Christine (00:50:09):
No French made whiskeys. And I said, yes they do. Let me tell you about it. Yeah, it's a fight. It's a constant fight. It's a constant work. But we're not giving up. I mean we've been at it for almost 10 years now, and we keep trying and I keep telling lik it, it's going to happen. Look, 15 years ago, nobody was talking about Japanese whiskeys and Japanese has made, I've been making whiskeys for a long, long, long time. And of course, Japanese were using mostly Scottish scratches or SCO blend to make their own whiskeys. Now of course they have regulations, which is nice. Yes, finally. But France has the reputation and my hope is that not too many of the bad one come to America mean right now there are about nine brands in the US and I have to say there's different styles of course. But what I feel bad about is that a lot of those are just too young to be sold. And that just doesn't give French France a good reputation on how to make French whiskeys. So we are trying to make sure that they taste good products.

Drew (00:51:19):
I think what excited me about it was that I knew the background of brandy and cognac and distilling in France. It just seemed like a no-brainer that if the French decided to make whiskey, that they have skills that would translate very well to moving over to making whiskey. And so I think people who appreciate that side of it will probably be faster to move over to French whiskeys than those who are either they, they're just bourbon drinkers or cuz we have that in the us. I mean we're coming out with American single malts but to try to teach the European market that we have more than just bourbon over here because sometimes bourbon just becomes a name for American whiskey.

(00:52:13):
It's a challenge to do that too. And with the tariffs that have been on, it's not been easy to have whiskeys going back and forth to be able to learn about whiskeys from the other side of the Atlantic. So I think in both situations there's going to probably be an explosion of knowledge coming out about what's going on on the other side of the Atlantic in both situations that may help educate the consumer. There's always going to be the blended whiskey fan who's always just going to drink blended whiskey and they don't care. They just want something to put down their throat and to get a nice little buzz out of. But for those who actually want to experience and enjoy whiskey, I just sense that you're probably going to find now that the export market is opening up so much more that there will be people here that will have a thirst for French whiskey once they know a little bit more about it.

Christine (00:53:12):
But also, let's not forget that France has everything they need to make a hundred percent French whiskeys. We have the grain, we have the steels, we have the oak, we have the barrels, and we have the know-how. So this is one of the rare countries in the world who can actually produce a hundred percent

Drew (00:53:34):
Of their own stuff, of

Christine (00:53:35):
Their own whiskeys. So it was just a matter of time before we started to make French whiskeys. Really

Drew (00:53:41):
That was part of the reason why I asked that question about whether there would be a point where you really just say, Hey, let's have a rule for a particular type of French whiskey that is 100% product of France and doesn't use bourbon barrels, doesn't use barrels from outside and doesn't use grain from outside. But that says, mm-hmm here it is. This is a 100% French made whiskey.

Christine (00:54:11):
Yes, absolutely. And to even add on that in France, 75% of all whiskeys produced in France currently are single malt where as the world produces only 20% of single malt. So what it shows is that France, again is reaching for quality again the same way they do rich for quality when they make their brandies. So they're applying the same system, the same philosophy, the same intention is to make the best.

Drew (00:54:50):
So this is the one I was most interested in when I saw this label. I said, oh, she knows me and this is the heavily ped and oh

Christine (00:55:02):
Yes,

Drew (00:55:03):
This is where I say, okay, this is going to be the test for me because I love Isla whiskeys. I love the idea now that there are American whiskey distillers that are interested in figuring out what American peat will be like. And because of where you're situated on the ocean, it just makes me think if you can get a little of that medicinal character in there and you have that Pete smoke, it'll be fascinating to see how this compares to an ilo whiskey. And so the first thing that happened was I put it to my nose and I got that beautiful medicinal smoke smell that I appreciate from ilo whiskeys, but it has its own kind of personality to it.

Christine (00:55:59):
Actually, we just received that one fairly recently. We had asked David for years to actually produce a heavy peeled one. He first came out with a light petered one and that didn't sell very well. So we said, light Peter is just not to American tastes, we need to come up. You need to come up with a heavy petered. So for the past six, seven years, we told him, please do a heavy pit. Please do a heavy pit. So he finally did and he just came out with it. I actually mean I'm a fan of Laro. Yeah. So I love laro, love everything that's petered. Not all the time. I like a lots different sides, types of whiskeys, but occasionally I'll just have a nice glass of laro. So finally now I can just go to amk and have a nice glass. So repeated whiskeys. Yeah, this is very well met. This is beautiful. This is not as heavy as maybe the big peat or optimal or things like that, but it is heavy peated.

Drew (00:57:02):
Yeah. And it's not ashy like an art bag. It again brings on, there's fruit notes underneath that come through it. Yes. Which is really nice on the nose.

Christine (00:57:12):
Well, that's what I like about Ammori is that the whole line, you still find that consistent base of the citrus, the honey, the fruit, the bread batter. And that's always there more or less in the background no matter what expression we're tasting. And I really, really like that about Amik because it shows a consistent pattern and a great distiller. Really,

Drew (00:57:40):
This has a coco that comes through on the pallet that is amazing for me. This just nice chocolate note. I almost get a banana note out of it too. It's like a lot of my favorite flavors are all popping out of this smoke. And yeah, it's really interesting and it has a saltiness to it also, which is fun because that again Oh absolutely. Yeah. That's something that being on the coast that I'm surprised that actually doesn't get into more of your other whiskeys, but where does the grain come from for this whiskey

Christine (00:58:18):
Eastern part of France?

Drew (00:58:20):
So it does. Okay. And then where is it? Oh yes, absolutely. Do we know where it's been peed? Yeah,

Christine (00:58:24):
I believe it's been petered in Belgium.

Drew (00:58:28):
Okay. Oh

Christine (00:58:29):
Interesting. Which is the closest one to French France where we can malt of France? Well, I think it's been, I'm not sure exactly, actually. Okay. I have to take this back. I'm not sure. I know a little bit less about this product than others, only because I haven't had a chance to really look into it and ask the right question. But in France we don't have the legal right to remove Pete from the earth. So it it'll never be French Pete I'm not sure if it's Belgium or Scotland at this point. Okay. So I won't say anything. I will tell you later. I will probably, I'll find out because now you putting me a question that I don't have the answer for. This is Beau. Hey, it happens.

Drew (00:59:18):
This is beautiful though. This is again one of those whiskeys that I would put this up against many Isla whiskeys. I think it is really, really

Christine (00:59:28):
Nice. So that's interesting what you're saying because in general, when I start sampling consumers on Amari, at the beginning people were saying, what do you mean French whiskey? No, I don't want any, don't think not don't trust it or whatever. That was years ago. And I got very frustrated and I said, I'm going to stop saying it's French. I'm just going to say, Hey, do you wanna take a taste, a single malt? Oh sure. I wanna taste a single malt taste a single mal. And it never fails. They were saying, where does it come in Scotland? What part of Scotland? I say it's not, it's Scotland, it's French. And again, the whole thing again. Yeah. What do you mean it's French? Yeah, it's from French. And they were, oh wow, I'm shocked. I didn't know France was making whiskeys. And boy that's pretty good. I'm really surprised. And they would buy a bottle. So I always have to do that. Now I usually try to do blind and then say after the fact this is French. Because people have this preconceived idea that if it doesn't come from Scotland or from a famous producing single country, then it can be good. Well sorry, but yeah, this is wrong. So this is the kind of thing we have to fight every day for. But it's part of my job. Well

Drew (01:00:40):
It's going to be doubters who are going to say, you're only going to get that Isla experience or that really great quality smokey whiskey from the west coast of Scotland. But here we are in the west coast of France and we're not far from it. And a culture that really isn't that dissimilar in terms of that particular region with the Celtic influence coming through. So it just makes sense to me. But then I know some of that history, whereas other people don't really know that history or geography. So again, it's all education really.

Christine (01:01:18):
And then of course we're not the only one to say it's good. We're not the only one to say our moic is of great quality. We have experts saying it. We have reliable experts like the tasters from the whiskey advocate. I mean they are very, very, very difficult. They're very strict. They don't give high rates and high notes for no reason. And they do amik different tasters at the whiskey advocate. They, especially the double maturation, which they featured many times in their magazine. So it's not just us, it's really a product that is good. We are very, very proud to have it and tell the story about that. Iik is the pioneer. Amur is the one who gave the impulsion to the French whiskey making industry. And so we are very happy to be in this position and we just wanna keep moving forward with it. And our other whiskeys too.

Drew (01:02:18):
Yeah,

Christine (01:02:19):
I mean Bai does very well. The single malt from Bai is actually excellent as well. So different style altogether. But

Drew (01:02:25):
Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about Bastille, cuz I've run out of samples from Americ. Oh, okay. Okay. So let's talk a little bit about Bastille and it's background. How long has Bastille been a brand?

Christine (01:02:43):
Since 2010. But Bai is actually the grandchild of the DKU family who has been mostly more known for, well for making cognac, first of all for centuries, but also more recently for making the X-rated vodka and X-rated liquor that is now sold to Campari. So they're a family owned company but they're oriented toward creating different brands. It's a little different bit of a different concept as Amik or as any of the producers that we work with who are promoting their own name. Basically Bai is a brand, is name. It's been created in 2010. They have both a blended whiskey and a single malt and it's all made in cognac double distilled in a cognac steel. So it's a completely different concept at Amik than Amik. Even the yeast they use and the barrel they use, I mean it's just different. But it's a good product too,

Drew (01:03:48):
In terms of their place in the marketplace. I can't find Amek anywhere or I haven't looked. I need to look and actually, because once you see the name, you start to remember. And of course now with your bottle change, I'll have to imprint the new branding in my mind. But I have seen Bastille around, I know that in fact the two French whiskeys that I was most familiar with are Brenn, which is now a Heaven hill product and Bastille. So it seems like Bastille is probably a wider distribution maybe, or just I'm lucky here in South Carolina that I get it.

Christine (01:04:29):
You from South Carolina?

Drew (01:04:30):
Yeah.

Christine (01:04:31):
Okay. So yes, we do have a little bit of Amari in South Carolina. You would have to find it. I think we have only a couple stores we have it. Bai was introduced in the US before, almost at the same time as Amari, but slightly before. And they were brought in by a big importer who kind of flooded the market with it and then decided to focus on something else. So that's when we came in and we took over the brand and we are trying to keep it going and it's working very well. Bai has a different concept in a way that it actually came up with a blended whiskey that was more affordable, and therefore more people started to taste it, more stores story to carry it because of the price point. So that's a little bit of an marketing advantage on Aric, is that AIC has entry level products that are blended, but we decided not to bring it in early on. We wanted to focus on the single malt. So that's the reason why you probably see Bai in more places. But Ric is today is available in about 20 states. And again, South Carolina is not one of the better states. Yeah. We're working on it. Like I said, it's a work in progress.

Drew (01:05:54):
We know our three-tier system, it messes every, exactly. It messes everything up. And

Christine (01:05:59):
Yes. And sometimes it's just that because the distributors cannot be convinced that they should give it a try. So if you can't get past the distributor, then you can't get anywhere. But we have it ready available in Illinois, Georgia, New York Colorado Texas. I mean, we have it in a lot of good places. And Massachusetts of course, because we are here Connecticut. So just keep trying, looking. It's a work in progress. Yeah, we are. We're getting better year after year. And as we select different expressions, unique expressions, sometimes even single cask, then you will start seeing it in more places.

Drew (01:06:44):
Okay. So let's do a tasting, I guess, on the blended first, or talk a little bit about the blended. Okay, bae.

Christine (01:06:54):
Okay. I'll let you taste it. Okay. Cause I don't have it in my bar right now. Yeah. All have is the single mark, but that's okay. That's

Drew (01:07:00):
Okay. So this actually does have a hint of smoke to it too, but I also, it's a minerally note off of this, which is interesting.

Christine (01:07:11):
Yes. It really smells and tastes like a new spirit. It's got that freshness, that liveliness. It's really almost like a new spirit coming out of the steel. Yeah, it's a fairly it's five years old, I think. So it's fairly new, fairly young. But that was the style, and that's what they wanted. That's what they wanted to reach. They wanted to get a blend that was easy to drink, fruity, lively, crisp a little bit of smoke, but not too much, and very easy to drink. And again, the price point here was, is now 34 99. So it's really, really inexpensive. And outside of the taste, people love the bottle.

Drew (01:07:56):
Well, it's got very approachable especially for scotch drinkers and even bourbon drinkers. The vanilla comes through in it, and I get some Apple notes in there and the baking spices as well. So, cheers.

Christine (01:08:11):
Cheers. <laugh>, go directly for the single mot,

Drew (01:08:15):
I should say sa, shouldn't I?

Christine (01:08:18):
Yes.

Drew (01:08:19):
<laugh> say it's a French way rather than yeah, there's almost like a perfumy vanilla flavor that comes in there and then the spice comes in on top of that.

Christine (01:08:35):
Yeah. Well, they use because they're in cognac, they use a little bit more of the limousine oak and the limousine oak is known to give vine vanilla. Well, it is what they use for a lot of the border wines as well. So

Drew (01:08:50):
It's like vanilla pudding when you're at the end. It really has a nice strong vanilla flavor.

Christine (01:08:56):
Yep, that's

Drew (01:08:57):
True. Very much so. That's true.

Christine (01:08:59):
Did you have the single malt or not?

Drew (01:09:01):
I have the single malt right here. Yeah. Oh, okay. Yep. So I'll pull that up. This is the one that has much more of a mineral only note to it. We have whiskey here, George Dickel, that sometimes gets called Flintstone vitamins because it has that kind of a minerally note to it of, oh, and I get that actually a little bit here. But I'm guessing you're not using American oak barrels for this?

Christine (01:09:31):
No, no, no. That's all limousine oak. Okay. And the limousine oak are used, and they had contained soan wine so, which is sweet. They had contained burgundy wine and a little bit of cherry wine too. So there's different cask here that are used, but no bourbon milk. Okay. No.

Drew (01:09:53):
Yeah. And this is so different from the blend. The blend is bright and comes at you really heavy with that apple and vanilla. And this has more kind of an old wood kind of a note to it.

Christine (01:10:12):
And of course, in cognac, they use the famous river the Sak river water to make cognac and to use in whiskeys as well. So that's a completely different source. Water source. That's a completely different concept as amk. Yeah. There's no bourbon in this one. That's a mostly limo oak that have held different wines before that. Well, the first one was also Limousin Oak, but it had held some cognac casks in it, so it was a little bit different for the blend.

Drew (01:10:45):
But the smoke is here too. Definitely a smokey

Christine (01:10:48):
Milk. Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

Drew (01:10:49):
Yep.

Christine (01:10:50):
Dried fruit, smoke, apricot. Mm-hmm.

Drew (01:10:55):
I get that heavy on the pallet. It's dryer.

Christine (01:11:00):
Yeah. Yeah. Dried fruit.

Drew (01:11:02):
Yep. Very, very pleasant flavors, though. Little citrus. Do they char the barrels at all?

Christine (01:11:13):
Oh, yes, they do. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the barrels had been charred before,

Drew (01:11:16):
But they don't recharge them.

Christine (01:11:17):
The first product that they put

Drew (01:11:20):
In. Yeah, they don't recharge them.

Christine (01:11:22):
I mean, okay. So for tn, they had not been charred. I don't think Saturn charged barrels for burgundy either. But I think for Sherry, they might charge the barrels. They have, the barrels might have been charred a little bit

Drew (01:11:35):
Because there's a little of that note in there. But the, it's interesting, I go back on the nose and I almost get that the smoke almost has kind of that briny kind of a sent to it. It's really interesting. So what I have seen, I'm going to have to go back to <laugh>, my local store and look and see whether they're selling the single malt or they're just selling the blend there because that single malt is really interesting.

Christine (01:12:06):
The blend is, I have to say, the blend is the more popular one we've been trying to push the single malt. And again, it's a work in progress. It's just a matter of convincing the distributor and then the retailer. But again, whenever we do consumer tastings, people love it. Yeah. It's just a matter of getting to the consumers. Absolutely. Like you said, the three tier distribution doesn't make it easy.

Drew (01:12:34):
For sure. We're hoping that goes away someday. That's an old prohibition issue, but I don't know

Christine (01:12:38):
About that.

Drew (01:12:39):
Yeah, that's going to take a lot of work. So

Christine (01:12:41):
Everybody makes money on the way, so I don't think so. But

Drew (01:12:44):
<laugh>, very good. Well, I appreciate you, Christine, going through all of these different whiskeys and sending me samples of them and really introducing people to French whiskey because it is a category that I think people need to pay attention to. And yes, there's a lot of whiskey coming out around the world right now, but I am a big fan of being able to experience different parts of the world through whiskey, and not just being stuck on one particular thing, but expanding Absolutely. The palette as much as possible. So this is great, and it's going to be fun to see where you guys go in the future with different expressions that will be coming out.

Christine (01:13:28):
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And we gotta keep spreading the law. Yeah,

Drew (01:13:32):
Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you so much. Thank you

Christine (01:13:35):
For helping us do that.

Drew (01:13:37):
And if you wanna learn more about French whiskeys, just head to heavenly spirits.com/product/whiskey without the E, or find all the links you need on our show notesPage@whiskeylord.com slash interviews. And if you love these deep dives into whiskeys from around the world, we'll check out our past episodes, including a look at Australian Whiskey with Dave Vital of Star War Distillery. Or if you're subscribed well, you're going to get to hear some upcoming episodes this year, including Irish, Canadian and German whiskeys. And you can buy my personal tastings of these whiskeys and more plus some whiskey education at youtube.com/whiskey. I'm your Stu Hennish, and until next time, cheers. And Slah Whiskey Lores, a production of Travel Fuel's Life, L L C.