Introduction

Welcome to Whiskey Lore's Whiskey Flights, your weekly home for discovering great craft distillery experiences around the globe. I’m your travel guide, Drew Hannush, best-selling author of Experiencing Irish Whiskey and Experiencing Kentucky Bourbon, and today, we’re heading for North Yorkshire, England—a lesser-known distilling region that's quickly filling up with quite a few quality whisky distilleries. 

Arrival Phase

And, as we make our way south down the A697 and make our way running parallel to the North Sea Coast, after 2 hours of driving through the beautiful English countryside, we’ll be stopping at our next destination, Cooper King Distillery, in the heart of North Yorkshire. Of course, I could have taken a combination of buses and trains to make this journey, but there is something about being free to stop off at any small English village that piques our interest. And as we get closer to our distillery destination, let’s take a moment to learn a little bit more about the area we are about to invade.

Area Profile

"North Yorkshire, with its verdant fields and historic market towns, is a region that blends natural beauty with a deep sense of history. Known for its dramatic moorlands, quaint villages, and the rugged coastline of the North York Moors, this area provides a stunning backdrop for any traveler.

The medieval city of York stands out as a highlight, boasting an impressive cathedral, ancient walls, and a rich heritage that dates back to Roman times. Its cobbled streets and historic buildings offer a charming atmosphere, perfect for leisurely exploration.

For outdoor enthusiasts, the North York Moors National Park offers expansive heather moorlands, scenic walking trails, and breathtaking views. The park is a haven for hikers, cyclists, and nature lovers, providing a perfect escape into nature.

The coastal town of Whitby, with its gothic abbey and connections to Bram Stoker’s Dracula, provides a unique seaside experience. Visitors can enjoy the vibrant fishing port, explore the narrow streets filled with independent shops, and sample the renowned fish and chips by the harbor.

In addition to its natural and historic attractions, North Yorkshire is home to charming villages like Helmsley and Pickering, where you can find traditional tea rooms, local markets, and historic castles. The region also offers a range of cultural experiences, from local festivals celebrating music and food to the chance to witness traditional crafts and customs.

Whether you’re tracing the steps of ancient Romans in York, soaking in the serene beauty of the moors, or enjoying the coastal charm of Whitby, North Yorkshire promises a captivating and memorable journey."

Distillery Arrival

Well, we've just reached the town of Stillington, and I'm looking to the right to find our turnoff onto B1363 (Carr Lane). From there, it’s about a 2 km drive to our destination, the Cooper King Distillery. I’ve been particularly excited to visit Cooper King because I heard the distillery's founders, Chris and Abbie Jaume, were inspired to start the business during a sabbatical in Australia. I’m curious to learn what they discovered there and how it influenced their approach to whisky-making. 

And our host today is Chris Jaume. Chris and Abbie have been recognized for their outstanding efforts in sustainability, making this distillery not just a place for great whisky but also an example of eco-friendly innovation. As we sit down, I want to start out by finding out more about this curious name, Cooper King. It sounds perfect for a whisky distillery, but as I understand it, it has nothing to do with the creation of whisky barrels. So, I wanted to ask Chris the story behind that name."

Interview

Chris Jaume (03:28.459)
So Charles Cooper King was my great, great granddad. And he was Lieutenant Colonel in the Royal Marine Artillery. And back in the 1800s, he produced these incredible family volumes, big A3 volumes, leather bounds. There was a whole series of them. And he traced our family name back to Yorkshire to the year 1030. So we're talking over a thousand years, nearly a thousand years.

Drew Hannush (03:53.811)
Mmm.

Chris Jaume (03:56.715)
And as a child, I was shown these family volumes by my grandmother and they had pictures of knights and horseback and all sorts. And these are my ancestors. And the Cooper King logo is actually a sort of modern variation of the original coat of arms. So there's a fantastic cathedral over in Ripon and you can see part of the Cooper King coat of arms carved into the cathedral because we helped fund the building of it.

Drew Hannush (04:25.075)
Mmm.

Chris Jaume (04:25.355)
many, many years ago. So yeah, incredible ties to Yorkshire. Obviously a barrel maker in the family there somewhere as well. And it's been really exciting to sort of pour over these volumes and learn, I guess, about my ancestry.

Drew Hannush (04:38.483)
Yeah, what I love about the crest is it tells a story. And so you have the symbols there from that. Can you talk about what those symbols mean?

Chris Jaume (04:42.731)
Yeah.

Chris Jaume (04:47.947)
Yeah, so the Warhammers, they're the three Warhammers at the top of the crest. They are the Pigott family and they're the ones with the ties back to Yorkshire. They're the ones you can see over Ripon Cathedral. Then we've also got the Garrets and the Kings, also represented on the crest as well. And I think you're hopefully as this...

interview goes on, you'll realise that if you have an architect and a scientist running a distillery, everything has to be done for a reason. Everything has a reason to exist, basically.

Drew Hannush (05:24.499)
Yeah.

Drew Hannush (05:28.787)
So talk about that transition because to be an architect and a scientist, how do you end up running a distillery?

Chris Jaume (05:39.947)
Good question. So about 12 years ago, I had recently qualified as an architect and my girlfriend, now wife, Abby, was a scientist with a PhD. We were living in Leeds, so living in Northern England, been working those jobs for about a year and realized we hated them, unfortunately. So I'm sure many people go through at times in their life, they realize they're doing something they didn't sort of originally plan to.

Drew Hannush (06:00.915)
Ha ha ha.

Chris Jaume (06:08.363)
Now at the time we were in our late 20s, we didn't have kids, we didn't have a mortgage, we hadn't bought a house, we had no real ties. So we thought, well, let's disrupt things, let's quit. We bought one way tickets to Australia with no plans whatsoever, much to our parents dismay at the time, as you can imagine. Found ourselves over in Australia and in Tasmania of all places. So tiny islands, so south of Melbourne.

Drew Hannush (06:25.907)
Hehehehehe

Chris Jaume (06:37.131)
mostly national park and protected sort of wilderness, really beautiful, beautiful rugged islands. Soon after arriving there, a relatively at the time unheard of distillery called Sullivan's Cove won the accolade of producing the world's best single malt whiskey. Now at the time Abby and I were backpacking and if you've ever been backpacking or spoken to anyone has to survive, you need to be opportunistic. So we messaged friends back home with a whiskey blog and said, look, we're in Tassie, we're 20 minutes from the distillery.

If you buy us a bottle of whiskey, basically, buy us lunch, we'll go and visit the distilleries on the islands and get you some vlog content. And they agreed. At the time we thought there were three distilleries, turned out there were eight distilleries on the islands. Jackpot for us. We basically spent the next six months visiting all these beautiful distilleries around the island, meeting these incredible people. And it was actually Peter Bignall at Belgrave Distillery was the first we visited.

Drew Hannush (07:14.611)
Thanks.

Drew Hannush (07:20.339)
Hahaha

Nice.

Chris Jaume (07:36.619)
Now he was a farmer who grew too much rye one year, decided to, didn't know what to do with it, decided to distill it, made his own copper pot still. What was he doing? He was floor malting and using some raw grain as well and made this incredible whiskey that was then stocked with Noma's pop -up restaurant in Sydney. And Noma for a while was the best restaurant in the world. And there were kind of these recurring themes amongst all that the Tassie distillers were. None of them had.

Virtually none of them had industry experience. They weren't from Scotland. They didn't have 10 million pounds in the bank, but they were making absolutely fantastic whiskey that was winning World Whiskey Awards and being stopped in the best restaurants in the world. And we just absolutely fell in love with it. Fell in love with the way they were doing it. They weren't focused on volume. They didn't have big export targets. You know, they were just, they just loved making whiskey for the sake of making good whiskey. And we were so captivated by that.

Drew Hannush (08:16.051)
Mm.

Chris Jaume (08:33.067)
I mean, we ended up spending two years over there learning how to brew and distill. So this idea kind of developed that, okay, well, we could go back to England. You know, we like our whiskey, we love our food and drink. We want to work together. Maybe this is what we could do. And as we visited each distillery and had a couple of drams afterwards, this idea snowballed unchecked. And again, being in Australia is, it was so inspirational in that.

Drew Hannush (08:35.891)
Well.

Chris Jaume (09:00.107)
we met Australians and said, you know, we've quit our jobs. We're learning how to make whiskey over in Oz and we're going to go back to England and build a distillery. And they were just like, good on you, mate. You know, slap on the back, just enthusiasm. It was incredible. So to be in your late twenties in that environment with just everyone like, good on you, crack on. We did. Returned to England in 2016. You know, Aussie Tan, Aussie Twang went to the bank.

Drew Hannush (09:10.067)
Ha ha ha

Chris Jaume (09:29.611)
with a big business plan, you know, we've got this grand idea to build a distillery, met all these wonderful people doing it. And they said, absolutely not. We're back in risk averse England. So yeah, didn't quite work out as planned early doors, but then we, you know, undeterred, we set up a crowdfunding campaign. So we've got 550 founders from across the world who sort of believed in what we were attempting to do and help fund it.

Drew Hannush (09:38.867)
Ha ha ha ha.

Drew Hannush (09:42.803)
no.

Chris Jaume (09:59.243)
We set up a company, we sold shares. Even registering the company name was fraught with challenges because Cooper King distillery, if you use any ties to a royal in registering a company name, you get an angry letter from the cabinet office.

Drew Hannush (10:10.739)
man. Nice.

Chris Jaume (10:17.035)
So yeah, a real whirlwind of an adventure. We managed to pull funds together and we self, basically crowdfunded and self built a whiskey distillery up in Yorkshire and launched our first whiskey October last year, which is a full 10 years from getting on that plane to Australia with no plans to having a whiskey. And it sold out in eight and a half minutes. It was incredible. So.

Drew Hannush (10:38.419)
Wow. Well, the interesting thing about England, it's so close to Scotland, but we really think about England probably more for gin than we do for whiskey. What was the whiskey landscape like in terms of distilleries in England at that time?

Chris Jaume (10:56.747)
So there was one very early front runner and that was The English down in Norfolk. I mean, they had been producing for eight, nine, 10 years maybe, I think when we got back. But they were at the time, we were also interested in what the scene was like. So we did some research, we traveled around the country in our little Nissan Micra at the time. And we put together the English Whiskey Map, which hadn't been done before. And there were 14 of us on the map at that time, either...

Drew Hannush (11:23.443)
Mmm.

Chris Jaume (11:24.715)
producing whiskey or in planning stages. And that's now nearly quadrupled in the time since we were back from Australia. So there's 55 on the current and there's a few more in the pipeline as well. So it was kind of early days when we got back, but we could see what had happened in Tasmania and how the way they were producing and the awards they were winning was garnering so much interest outside of Tassie and worldwide interest. And we could kind of see that was going to happen in England.

It has, you know, what with two English whiskeys winning World's Best in the last three years and the interest English whiskeys now garnering, it's a very exciting time to be part of it.

Drew Hannush (12:06.035)
So visiting those other distilleries probably helped you get some insights into where English whiskey was at that time. And if there were some holes maybe to fill in terms of concepts, because I think what's fun about English whiskey versus Scotland is Scotland has the Scotch whiskey association and they have some very rigid rules, but English whiskey.

Chris Jaume (12:29.771)
Hmm

Drew Hannush (12:31.379)
hasn't quite gotten to that point where the rules have been set down to be very strict as to what English whiskey is. So coming back from Tasmania, what were your thoughts about what could we do differently that we've learned down in Tasmania that we could bring back?

Chris Jaume (12:48.971)
I think one of the biggest things from Tasmania, well, there was a couple of things. One was the camaraderie and the transparency, those two things combined. So everyone in Tassie, they're all helping each other, sharing knowledge, sharing ideas, sharing contacts. And I think it was Mark Nicholson at Lark had said, you know, a rising tide floats all ships. So anyone drinking Tasmanian whiskey, they want it to be fantastic whiskey. And the similar thing is happening in England. So.

The English Whiskey Guild was founded a few years ago. We're one of the founding members of that. And that's the same idea is that we can all share knowledge and sort of raise the profile of English whiskey together. I think the biggest thing though, from Tassie, was the transparency. So, I know in Scotland, as you mentioned with the SWA, the Scotch Whiskey Association, the regulations that apply, there's actually some restrictions on what you can say and how you can talk about your whiskey.

Drew Hannush (13:42.355)
Mm -hmm.

Chris Jaume (13:42.475)
In Tassie there wasn't and we've taken a leaf out of their book. So as an example, if you were to go to our website and there's a section called Spirit Specifics, you could look at any one of our whiskey releases and we're telling you exactly how old it is, the cask makeup, the yeast variety, fermentation time, where it's matured, the full process. Because we think as a whiskey drinker, that's a really exciting thing to understand.

why the whisky tastes and looks the way it does in your glass. And maybe some of the higher output distilleries that are out there don't share that information so freely. So for us, I think that was really important. And then also, to direct influences on production, over in Tassie, they used smaller casks traditionally. So they use 100 -liter casks, which we've also adopted here. So you get a faster maturation, but it's...

Drew Hannush (14:30.675)
Mm -hmm.

Chris Jaume (14:37.003)
Also kind of richer, full of flavor, you've got really active casks, great surface area to liquid ratio. So we're seeing some really interesting mature whiskeys coming out of us here within three, four years. And it was the same over in Tasmania. The other thing they use a lot over in Tassie is wine casks. They've got a booming wine industry. So Pinot Noir casks there used to quite a lot.

Drew Hannush (14:59.283)
Mm.

Chris Jaume (15:04.651)
Again, over here at Cooper King, we're partnering with a supplier over in Bordeaux. And so we've gone over there and we're sourcing some really, really beautiful, fresh red wine casks, which can be emptied at a vineyard in Bordeaux, shipped over to here, filled with spirit art esthery within 10 days. So incredibly fresh, very minimal sulfur, which is yielding some really incredible results. But I mean, it's not

Drew Hannush (15:26.099)
Wow.

Chris Jaume (15:32.459)
It's not a cheap way to source casks.

Drew Hannush (15:34.867)
Well, I would say too, the other danger is if you're getting wet casks over here, it could probably age that whiskey or part its flavor and be overdone really quickly.

Chris Jaume (15:47.531)
Yeah, that's a good point. And it's something we are very tuned into. So smaller cast you can overcook quite easily. But again, something learned from Tazza, I guess that constant monitoring, they've obviously a warmer climate over there than we do up here in Yorkshire. But yeah, continue monitoring and just understanding how our spirit interacts with those casks. And yeah, with careful monitoring, we're getting some really good results.

Drew Hannush (16:13.075)
I saw you also had been getting some casks from a distillery that I know here in Kentucky, MB Rowland. What are those casks doing for you?

Chris Jaume (16:23.979)
They're stunning. So, you know, when we built the distillery and we started exploring where we were going to source casks from, you know, we could have gone to one of the big cupidges across the border up in Scotland and could have just said, you know, send us 20 bourbon casks and they would have taken the next 20 from the yard. Fine. They would have been all right, but we wouldn't have known provenance. We wouldn't have known who had made the spirit that had gone into them. There's so much missing from that story. So instead we flew over to Kentucky.

Drew Hannush (16:49.107)
Mm -hmm.

Chris Jaume (16:51.499)
And we went to visit Paul and Marybeth at MB Rowlands and they have a very similar ethos to us. So they're a family -owned distillery. They're producing using a local variety of corn that doesn't necessarily yield a lot of alcohol, but is fantastic in terms of flavor. And we're doing the same with our barley choice over here. So we're sourcing, you know, freshly emptied bourbon casks straight from MB Rowlands, packed on a pallet and straight to us door to door.

And one of my favorite ones from there is their dark fired casks. So they make a beautiful dark fired bourbon where they smoke something like half the corn over chicory. No, sorry, hickory, hickory wood. So you get this lovely kind of smoky sweet barbecue flavor coming through in the bourbon. And that is continuing into the cask. And then we're finding that coming up into our spirit as well. And our next release due out sort of end of summer over here.

Drew Hannush (17:31.283)
Mm -hmm.

Chris Jaume (17:48.331)
with leaning heavily on those Smokes, Bourbon casks, and they're wonderful.

Drew Hannush (17:52.371)
Very nice, very nice. So you also only use a single still, so I understand. And where did that still come from? And what challenges does having just one still create for you?

Chris Jaume (18:05.451)
Quite a few. Not gonna lie. So our whiskey still is probably the most ridiculous souvenir we've ever bought back from any holiday. That came from Tasmania. It was made in Hobart in the capital. So we learnt to distill on a very similar still over there. It's a 900 litre copper pot still that was imported from Tassie.

Drew Hannush (18:06.995)
Hahaha

You

Chris Jaume (18:29.675)
It's the only one in the Northern Hemisphere. I think the only other ones exist in Tasmania and New Zealand and mainland Australia. So it's quite a cool thing to see in England. Ideally, we would have two. We would have a wash still and a spirit still. But I guess you speak to anyone who's set up a business from scratch or especially a whiskey distillery from scratch. It was more cost efficient in the early days to have one still to act as both the wash and the spirit.

Drew Hannush (18:34.802)
Hmm.

Chris Jaume (18:56.491)
To produce a batch of whiskey, we do two small wash runs in that still, collect the low wines and then read a still to do the spirit run. But I think over the next probably two to three years, we'll look to order a bigger still and then have a wash, dedicated washing spirit. But nothing else is done in that still apart from whiskey. We do produce gin and a few other spirits on site, but they're a completely different setup.

Drew Hannush (19:09.651)
Mm -hmm.

Drew Hannush (19:19.795)
Is there something different in the design of the still in terms of its shape that you find?

Chris Jaume (19:26.507)
Yeah, it's very angular. So the idea was with that originally was you get a lot of reflux. So maybe we'd get it originally, we thought it'd get quite a nice sort of lighter spirit because there's so much reflux going on during distillation. But we have, after speaking to some Tadzie distillers, deliberately put quite sort of underspect the heating elements. So we might get lots of reflux because of the angular shape, but the distillation runs are in

incredibly long. Sorry, no, no, no, I'm getting, we might have to redo that a bit. Let me just rethink that because we did change tact on what was happening with this still. It's not so much the shape of the still, that plays a little bit, but for us, it's the size of the elements, so the power we're using.

Drew Hannush (19:57.171)
Hmm.

Drew Hannush (20:02.643)
Okay, go ahead, go ahead.

Chris Jaume (20:25.483)
So maybe if you're able to ask, or maybe I'll just start talking and we'll see if we can cut it in.

Drew Hannush (20:32.467)
Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, the idea here is talking about a still and, and its impact on flavor. And what about a Tasmanian still, is, is going to make a difference in, in your spirit versus getting one from Forsyth's or, you know, German stills, which are very popular as well.

Chris Jaume (20:57.451)
So one of the main things is how that liquid is heated. So the Tasmanian stills are generally electrically heated, so with electrical elements. And Evren Tazi from the distilleries we spoke to, they seem to use far lower input in terms of heat, which create a really long spirit run, which would give an incredible light, fruity character to the spirit.

So by comparison, when we had this steel shipped over and we did speak to Vortice and a few other Scottish companies about what sort of size heating element we need, they specified something terrifyingly huge to width. So you'd finish that spirit run nice and quickly, very efficient, move through it. The Tazzy steel maker, I think, specced something half the size they recommended in Scotland, which is what we've gone for.

Drew Hannush (21:35.923)
Hahaha

Drew Hannush (21:45.715)
Mmm.

Chris Jaume (21:48.523)
It does mean really long days. Our spirit runs and wash runs are in the region of sort of six to nine hours for quite a small, you know, for 900 liters still, that's quite a long time. But what it's meaning is we're getting this really beautiful, fruity Newmate, really characterful. We get notes of like chamomile and linen and mango and green apple coming through, which again for us is just really reminiscent of the Newmate we were trying over in Tassie and kind of unlike anything we've tried over here in the UK.

Drew Hannush (22:18.57)
Yeah. It's fun to understand the stills impact on flavor. And when you're just getting your first run at building a distillery, you know, I mean, it feels like you would need some mentors around. You keep in touch with the people in Tasmania or have you found people in England that are kind of, they kind of helped you along the way and got you going.

Chris Jaume (22:42.539)
Both, you know, it's a real lovely industry to work in. So we've kept in touch over in Tassie with a chap called Dean, who used to work at Redlands Distillery, who helped teach us Peter Bignell at Bellgrove. Bill Lark has sort of assessed our new make and sent us feedback. So and a lot of those distillers have actually been over to visit us here, which is fantastic. So I think we've had two, three, maybe four Tassie distilleries over here in Yorkshire. But then there's also sort of

mentors across the border with Scotland. So Adam Hannett, head distiller at Brooklyn, we've sent him some new make and he's helped us and given us some feedback. Annabel Thomas McNeon, another really sustainable distillery. We're in a shared WhatsApp group with a lot of other sustainable distilleries to share ideas. And then with the English distilleries as well, you know, we all kind of know each other, we all meet up fairly regularly. So yeah, it's a lovely industry to be in and everyone is very

open to sharing knowledge.

Drew Hannush (23:43.315)
Well, you have created the perfect segue for us to go into talking about sustainability. And it's something that I sense is really high on your list of priorities. And in fact, I start seeing things like, you know, net zero or negative energy usage. That sounds unfeasible to me. First of all, talk about...

this idea of sustainability and how maybe you had an advantage in a way, because when you're starting from scratch, does that create an advantage for you versus these distilleries that have been around for a long time and need to convert to it? And then how do you get to a point where you are so minimally using energy that you actually go into the negative?

Chris Jaume (24:36.107)
So for us, sustainability kind of underpinned everything from the outset, and that was inspired by our time in Australia. So in Tasmania, we saw wildfires rip through large swathes of that and came very close to us, which was kind of a terrifying experience. We lived up in Queensland on the Great Barrier Reef and saw the destruction that was happening up there. So from the beginning,

we decided if we were going to come back to England and build a distillery, build a business, that we wanted it to sort of do good for the world and maybe create or protect some of those environments we'd seen damaged abroad. So, I mean, there's so many things we do, running on renewable energy from day one, sourcing all the barley, all the barley we use in our whiskey is all English grown, some of it locally, all the wheat for the gin is grown within Yorkshire, some of it's grown literally 20 meters behind me in the fields.

Recycled glass bottles, zero waste landfill, introducing gin refill schemes. There's so much we do.

That was kind of there from the beginning and it seemed that pre -COVID, maybe 10 % of our customers cared about that, 90 % weren't overly fussed. And something seemed to flip during sort of the public psyche during COVID where people, I don't know whether it's they're spending more time outdoors or just having more time to read and explore what businesses were doing. We saw a big shift in people then suddenly hunting us out because of our ethos.

Drew Hannush (26:04.563)
Mm.

Chris Jaume (26:09.483)
And during COVID, we announced that our two core gins were the country's first carbon negative gins. That essentially means for every bottle of gin we sell, we're removing a kilo of carbon from the atmosphere. It was a way to put all our practices, get them certified by a third party and get a sort of seal of approval, if you like. And we thought this is the right thing to do. We'll put it out there, see what happens. And I guess naively didn't understand the impact that would have. So...

Abby was on live on Sky News. We were on BBC radio. We had Selfridges ring up and say we want to make a gin with you. Natural History Museum in London. Lots of big, big names ringing a small team in a converted stable in North Yorkshire wanting to work with us. So it's definitely helped cut through the noise in a very crowded market on the gin side. And then on the whiskey side, our whiskeys are the first net zero energy whiskeys again in England.

And it's just down to reducing your impact and reducing your energy use to as small as possible to start with. And that is running on green energy. I mean, one of the coolest things we do, which people always like to hear about is the whiskey still itself is coated with an insulative paint, which is actually developed for NASA. And they use it, NASA use it to coat the tips of space rockets as they rear into the atmosphere. So it's basically means that and a few energy saving

Drew Hannush (27:33.939)
Mm.

Chris Jaume (27:39.147)
things we put in place on the whiskey side of production, we save 21 % of our energy use, which is huge for a whiskey distillery. But you're right in that as a smaller distillery, I guess, as a startup distillery, having that ethos there from the beginning, underpinning everything we do, it kind of makes it easier moving forwards because if we've got a new decision to make or there's a new piece of kit or a new product, then we've always got that sustainable kind of side to consider from the beginning.

And it may be harder for less agile, larger distilleries to try and tag that on or sort of integrate that into their business. But then I guess as well, it's pricing plays a part in that. You know, our whiskeys, we can't be competitive with the big high output producers. Their economy is a scale we can't match. And also, riding on green energy is really expensive.

Drew Hannush (28:18.355)
Yeah.

Chris Jaume (28:36.859)
sourcing English grain, which is all floor malted, again, really expensive. Lots of the things we do, and again, with the cask sourcing, you know, sourcing casks from fantastic producers with a similar ethos, we think it makes a better whiskey or fantastic whiskey, but it's definitely not the cheapest way to make whiskey. So we can't compete on price, but we can compete, I think, quite well on flavor and the story and the sort of, yeah.

They're the two key things, I think, for us. Fantastic whiskey with a great story behind it. That's what we love.

Drew Hannush (29:07.699)
Yeah.

stories definitely create a lot of impact. And I also think that now with people getting out and seeing distilleries and getting a chance to meet people and see the energy behind the whiskeys that they're drinking, that they're interested in helps also to be able to see some of these things in practice. What do you do on your tours to kind of give people a sense of what you're doing for sustainability?

Chris Jaume (29:40.427)
So our tours are quite small and intimate. So there are about 12 people at most. And everyone always comments. It's like sort of visiting friends or a family. So we've got fantastic tour guides who are founders, part of our founders club. So kind of emotionally invested in the reason we exist. And our tours last about an hour and a half. And we take you through every part of gin making and whiskey making. We talk about...

you know, the beehives you've got on site, we talk about where the grain comes from, we talk about growing our own lemongrass and juniper on site. Yeah, the whole process is delved into. And I think on tours, it's important that we allow anyone to ask any question they want. So we don't really hide anything and also allow people to ask questions which otherwise they might feel embarrassed they should probably know the answer to. So we, you know.

No question is a silly question. We've heard them all. So people often, by the end of a tour, you can see it really relax and really start like, so how does that, why does that taste the way it does? Or is all the color from the cast? How does that work? And there's often great discussions at the end of it.

Drew Hannush (30:50.515)
Yeah. Do you feel like you learn from the people that are asking you questions and kind of go, Ooh, maybe we should try something like that.

Chris Jaume (30:58.251)
Yeah, definitely, definitely. It's a two way thing. Yeah, we do have people coming with ideas and people emailing and say, have you tried this? Have you seen this? Or I've just been to this distillery. What about this? So yeah, no, but I think that's the joy of building the distillery like we have. It's not just the distillery which is just putting products out there. It's kind of like building a community around us and something else I guess we haven't talked about is how we're

kind of weaving into that local community. So if it's all right just to talk about it, the rural apprenticeship scheme is something we're funding through the sale of our whiskey. So we donate five pounds from every bottle of whiskey we sell to Yorkshire Dales Millennium Trust, which are a local charity, and that is directly funding apprenticeships for young people in rural areas.

to help them sort of get skills and qualifications so they can become custodians of the wonderful and natural environment they've grown up in. And I think that's a really important thing that this distillery has been able to create. It's kind of grown a lot bigger than just what Abby and I ever conceived it could be already in a very short time. You know, you've got those funding apprenticeships, but we've got people...

Tasmanian distillers flying over specifically to see us. And we've got people traveling up from all over England and the UK. We've even had early stage Scottish distillers who want to build small craft whiskey distilleries in Scotland coming to us to learn how to build a distillery on a craft scale, which is, you know, it's fantastic to see.

Drew Hannush (32:40.819)
Yeah, feels good. It's like, you know, you're making an impact if people are coming to you and looking for advice from you now instead of the other way around. So nice. So I guess another part of being local or the thing of the distillery can do for whiskey fans is it can introduce them to local communities and things to kind of do along with their

Chris Jaume (32:50.027)
Hahaha

Drew Hannush (33:06.515)
travel to see a distillery because there they can hear the story of the area and the people of the area and get a sense of place. But if somebody's coming to visit your distillery, do you have some places that you might suggest would be like a nice pairing option in terms of activities that they may want to take part in to get to know the area?

Chris Jaume (33:26.987)
You're absolutely spoilt for choice in Yorkshire. So in terms of outdoor pursuits, you've got the North York Moors and the Dales and coastlines. So there's mountains and climbing and hiking. In terms of history, I know you said you're a bit of a history buff. I mean, the York City itself, the ancient city of York and the city walls still intact and the Minster, absolutely stunning.

About 15 minutes away, we've got Castle Howard. So, what's the words? Hang on, what is Castle Howard? I'll start that again. It is a castle. Okay, so 15 minutes away, you've got Castle Howard, which was built in the 1700s. A wonderful historic site you can go and explore. And if you're just into your food and drink, we've got vineyards, breweries.

Drew Hannush (34:02.003)
Yeah.

Chris Jaume (34:19.659)
bakeries, one of the country's best cheese shops is not that far away. Yeah, really sport for choice.

Drew Hannush (34:26.643)
Very nice. Well, I hope this has enticed some people to take a trip in that direction and come and see you guys. And what days are your tours?

Chris Jaume (34:36.395)
Tours run every Saturday, every Saturday afternoon and they can be booked online.

Drew Hannush (34:41.363)
Well, Chris, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on. I love hearing the story and I look forward to seeing what you guys do in the future.

Chris Jaume (34:50.123)
Thank you very much and there's a dram here on the bar for next time you're over here waiting for me.

Drew Hannush (34:54.035)
fantastic. Fantastic.

Closing Details

I hope you enjoyed this virtual flight to the Cooper King Distillery. If I piqued your interest in traveling to the distillery, make sure to head to whiskey-lore.com/flights where you can view the profile of Cooper King Distillery and the growing list of worldwide distilleries we're featuring on the show. Then, dig deeper into the Whiskey Lore online distillery travel guide, use the heart feature to show your interest in the distillery, or log in with a free membership and bookmark your favorite distilleries to add them to your wish list. The site features planning tools, maps, tour dates, and booking links for over 300 distilleries worldwide. Start your journey at whiskey-lore.com/flights.

Teaser

"Now, stay tuned because, in just a moment I’ll have some closing travel tips if you plan on visiting Cooper King Distillery, but first, it’s time for This Week in Whiskey Lore."

This Week In Whiskey Lore

156 years ago this week, Congress passed amendments to the whisky tax laws that were created in President Lincoln’s first term as a wartime measure to raise money for the Union army. The law, had for the first time since the War of 1812, criminalized distilling by individuals for personal use, without obtaining a license. In July 1868, lack of enforcement of the law had led to mass tax avoidance as distillers and even revenue men found ways to flaunt the system.  To curb illicit distilling, the government overhauled the system, putting in place requirements that were so expensive, it drove many legal distillers out of business and it did nothing to curtail the illicit distilling trade. 

Turn the clock forward to this past week, when a provision of this statute again made the news. It came in the form of a federal judge in Texas declaring the ban on at-home distilling unconstitutional. This ruling, by U.S. District Judge Mark Pittman, potentially paves the way for hobbyists to legally distill spirits like whiskey and bourbon for personal use. The ruling came in response to a lawsuit filed by the Hobby Distillers Association, representing individuals interested in home distilling. Judge Pittman argued that the prohibition did not raise revenue but merely criminalized an activity without any clear connection to tax collection.

While this is a potential win for future home distillers, at least 41 states still have statutes on the books prohibiting home distilling. So for now, there are still many unresolved issues that will need to be addressed before home distilling is available legally to a majority of Americans. 

https://www.lawcommentary.com/articles/federal-judge-strikes-down-156-year-old-ban-on-at-home-distilling

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/distilling-laws-by-state

The Wrap Up

As we prepare to leave Cooper King Distillery and make our way to our next distillery destination, let me give you my three reasons why you should have this distillery on your Whiskey Lore Wish List.

First, if you love to embrace companies focused on sustainability, and you are curious as to what steps can be taken in shrinking a carbon footprint to nothing or less, Chris and Abbie have been achieved it and their staff can walk you through all of the steps they are taking to be good environmental stewards.

Second, this is a chance to see and learn about a Tasmanian still without having to take a 24 hour flight to the land down under. You’ll also see first hand how they get around using just a single still.

Third, the use of Tasmanian techniques, including smaller barrels, and the focus on smoky ex-Bourbon barrels and wine barrels, along with longer fermentation times, give you an opportunity to learn how these techniques impact the flavor and smells of a whisky.

I hope you enjoyed today’s episode. It’s time to jump back in the rental and drive a couple of hours north to a spot near the Scottish border to learn about a distillery that is helping to bring the English and Scottish distillery trails together. Make sure to subscribe to the Whiskey Lore podcast, so you don’t miss any of the great Whiskey Flights to come. I'm your travel guide, Drew Hannush. Until we meet again, cheers and Sláinte mhath.

Closing Acknowledgements

For transcripts and travel information including maps, distillery planning information, and more, head to whiskey-lore.com/flights. Whiskey Lore is a production of Travel Fuels Life, LLC.