Old Dominick Distillery

Drew H (00:00):
To members of the Whiskey Lore speakeasy or 1897 clubs. Make sure to catch this episode with an extended interview at patreon.com/whiskey lore. Welcome to Whiskey Lores Whiskey Flights, a weekly home for discovering great craft distillery experiences around the globe. I'm your travel guide, Drew Hannush bestselling author of experience in Kentucky Bourbon, the Lost History of Tennessee Whiskey that just released whiskey lore, volume one, the real stories behind bourbon, scotch and Irish Whiskey's biggest myths and legends. And today we are going to be heading out to our latest stop, which will be the second stop on whiskey Laura's epic. Great 48 tour of the United States, heading down I 69 to Memphis. That stop is a distillery that I've been to many times in the past, but this time I'm going to give you a chance to learn a little bit about it yourself, the old Dominic Distillery.

(01:06):
And if we're going to Memphis, well, of course you might think of Elvis or you might think of Memphis Blues or you might think of barbecue. There's a lot of reasons to make a pilgrimage to Memphis, but the one thing you might not think about going to Memphis for is whiskey. In fact, fans of hard liquor might think of Tennessee whiskey more in terms of Lynchburg and what's happening in the Rolling Hills around there, or Oma, or what happens up in the mountains with moonshine and bootleggers. And think about like Robert Chen's movie, thunder Road or Popcorn Sutton, or the show Moonshiners. Well, the World of Tennessee whiskey changed a lot in 2009 when the Tennessee General Assembly opened up distilling to at least half the counties in the state. But with all of that, it's amazing that Memphis really didn't actually start doing any distilling itself until halfway through the next decade.

(02:08):
Now, we're heading into about 10 years into that history. What's interesting is when I was doing research for the Lost History of Tennessee Whiskey book, I tried to find distilleries in Memphis and learned about Memphis whiskey. And the only thing I found were stories about how bad the whiskey was in Memphis in the mid 19th century. In fact, there was one story that said that Memphis whiskey was so bad that if they had taken it to Ireland, it might've been the reason why the snakes all left the island. So not a great reputation. The only early distillery I found was the Memphis Distillery, which was scooped up by the whiskey trust of Peoria, Illinois and then shut down so that it wouldn't create competition. And then another distillery was built around 1898, and this is when Jack Eaton moved to town. And if that name Eaton sounds familiar.

(03:07):
Well, if you have gotten a copy of whiskey lore, volume one, you've probably read the story of Alfred Eaton and his connection to Jack Daniel, and whether he was actually the guy who invented the Lincoln County process or not. I go into that whole thing, or in the lost history of Tennessee whiskey, I go into the whole story of Lincoln County. And of course one of the things I talk about with Lincoln County is the fact that there were a lot of fires going on towards the end of the century, thanks to prohibitionists who were burning down whiskey warehouses. And this was the thing that sent Jack out to, not Jack Daniel, but Jack Eaton out to Memphis around 1899, and he ran a distillery all the way up until about 1909 when Tennessee prohibition shut him down. So there is some history of distilling in Memphis, but it is very small indeed.

(04:06):
The thing that Memphis was really known for was actually the production of whiskey barrels and barrels for other things. Everything used to ship around in barrels. And if you think about memphis's proximity to Arkansas and Mississippi and Missouri and the Ozarks, the idea is that the timber was sourced from those areas and then shipped down to Memphis where they would be cut and assembled into barrels. And so a big cooperage industry was prevalent in Memphis during those years. There were a lot of saloons, there were a lot of wholesalers. And this is where the story starts to dip into our distillery visit today and the history of this particular distillery, which we're going to get into with Keith Renar, who is a tour guide at Old Dominic, a lover of Memphis history. And so he's got some stories to share with us as well as telling us a little bit more about the tour that you can experience now.

(05:05):
But we're going to talk about a guy named Dominic Canal, who had basically followed his uncles over from Genoa, Italy. They came over in the 1840s. He came over another decade and a half later and went to work for them, and they ran a whiskey wholesale shop all the way up until 1898 when Abe Vaccaro, the last remaining member died. And then this was the time that Dominic Canali really started to come into his own in terms of selling his own whiskey. So we're going to jump into that whole story here. And I wanted to start this off by having Keith tell us a little bit about Dominic Canal and also the origins of the brand.

Keith (05:56):
So Dominico Canali was an Italian immigrant. He was born in 1843 in the Italian Riviera. Italy's kind of at a weird state at this point because it's not a unified country, and wasn't for about 20 years after he was born. He didn't stick around that long. At the tender age of 16, he got on a boat, came across the ocean, came through New Orleans, and then ended up in Memphis working with his uncles, the Vaccaro brothers in the wholesale grocery business. He did that for about seven years, and then in 1866, he opened up his own company called De Canal and Company. And thank goodness, 158 years later we're all still here.

Drew H (06:48):
Well, it's an interesting story too, because it is still in the family.

Keith (06:53):
Yes, it is still in the family. And at the time when he opened his, now, the Vaccaro brothers were wholesalers. So when he opened the Decanal and company business, he went into retail. And retail in 1866 is clearly much different than it is today. And that retail in 1866 involved a horse-drawn cart, vegetables, spices, those kinds of things going around the streets of Memphis selling all of that along with old Dominic Whiskey, which was a whiskey that he was sourcing from the Susac Distilling Company. And it says Cincinnati, Ohio. But my research has shown me it was actually in Milton, Kentucky, which has a busting population of 532 people. But the key to it is it had a distillery that was on the Ohio River, which made the logistics very great to go down the Ohio River, connect to the Mississippi River, come down to Memphis, pull those barrels off of the barge, and then he would sell from there.

Drew H (08:03):
This is the thing that I think people don't really know about Memphis in terms of Tennessee has a whiskey history, but once you get out to the western end of the state, why make whiskey in a place where you have access to the river like that?

Keith (08:20):
Right. Well, and that was kind of the thing too. I mean, in Memphis, especially if you're coming down the river, you're halfway to New Orleans, which is where the majority of bourbon back in the day came to as they were trying to get around the blockades on the Eastern coast and during the American Revolution. So to me, it was one of those things where it just made perfect sense while you're on the way to the Orleans, drop some off here, we'll take care of it. And so I think Dominico was very forward thinking in that way. I mean, again, now what he was selling though, I would tell you it was a very, very raw whiskey, a white whiskey. The age statement on that whiskey was from the time it was put in the barrel probably maybe 10 days later until it got to Memphis, and then he pulled it out of the barrel. But back then whiskey was not known for its oaky complexities and its variety of flavor. It was meant to serve a purpose.

Drew H (09:20):
Yeah. Well, Memphis, because there weren't distilleries there didn't mean that it wasn't a drinking town. It definitely had a reputation.

Keith (09:28):
Absolutely was. There was a book that I just finished not too long ago called Crusaders, gangsters and Whiskey, and it talked about prohibition in Memphis. And being from here, I was thinking this will be a quick read. Strangely enough, it was not, the town at that point was run by a mayor. His name was EH Crump, they called him Boss Crump, and they called him Boss Crump for a reason. He ran this town, as a matter of fact, politically, he ran a lot even up in Nashville, the state capitol. So with his influence, he was able to direct business the way he wanted to direct it. And so many of the businessmen were successful because of him, specifically do O Canali because Tennessee passing prohibition 10 years ahead of the Federal Act, Tennessee passed it in 1910. But Boss Crump wasn't interested in what the politicians in Nashville, the influence they were going to have over his city and the way he was making money for his city and for his constituents. So basically turned a blind eye to that. And there are stories in that book about fights over islands in the Mississippi River. Oh,

Speaker 3 (10:44):
Wow.

Keith (10:46):
Because nobody knew what jurisdictions were, which,

Speaker 3 (10:49):
Yeah.

Keith (10:49):
Is it Arkansas, is it Tennessee? Who's supposed to do it? And Bootleggers took advantage of that.

Speaker 3 (10:55):
Yeah.

Keith (10:56):
There were wars on a particular place called President's Island where distillers were blowing up each other's stills. So law enforcement was just kind of like, okay, let 'em go at it because achieving our purpose without us having to be involved. So I really had no idea of the level of corruption and things like that that were going on in my own town.

Drew H (11:21):
The amazing thing about Boss Crump was that I found his obituary in the 1950s, and the question that was being asked was, who's going to run the city now? And he was no longer mayor. They wrote a law to make sure that he could not be mayor around 1917. So it's funny that you knock him out, but he only got stronger.

Keith (11:44):
When you go to the Hall of Mayors at City Hall, all of the mayor's portraits are there, and you see his timeline and this donate to this state, and they're all consecutive except for that one period of time.

Speaker 3 (11:58):
Yeah.

Keith (11:59):
What a political character to head up this city and make a history that we're still interestingly enough, very proud of.

Drew H (12:08):
Yes, yes. So talk about the rooster. You use a rooster icon. Where does that come from?

Keith (12:15):
The rooster was a Dominica Rooster.

(12:19):
Okay. And if you think about a Dominica Rooster, what you may or may not know is back in the day when Rooster fighting was a sport, the Dominica Rooster was the one that was about two and a half feet tall and won the majority of those fights. Now, Dominico close enough in name to Dominica decided to adopt that as his logo because depending on your level of literacy, you could discern that on the front of a bottle on the side of a tavern, and you would know what you were drinking. Kind of like a cultural icon to me, similar to what the Apple logo has come to be. So I think him appropriating that for his logo was incredibly brilliant and also echoes what was going on with another legacy brand in Old Crow. So anytime you had something like that, and by the way, anytime you put old in front of anything back then, somehow it gave it credibility, which really works well for me as I age. So I'm planning on being old Keith for a very long

Drew H (13:27):
Time. Nice, nice aging, like a fine tourist guide there.

Keith (13:32):
Well, I tell you, it's a whole lot of fun being here and knowing this history and then knowing the science behind the way everything is done. But yeah, so he did put the logo on his bottles, again, on the sides of taverns, on barrels so people would know what it was. And being a formidable animal, it made sense for him to draw on that for the strength of his brand.

Drew H (13:57):
So another interesting story that you'll see this when you're on the tour is there is an old bottle for the Memphis Totie. Talk a little bit about the story behind the Memphis.

Keith (14:10):
So as explained earlier, the whiskey that he was getting from the Squeak Distillery was a very raw whiskey, and he decided that with different spices and fruits, he could change the flavor of this and make it more acceptable to more people. So what he did is he combined what we believe today to be three citruses and four spices into, what do you call Dominic Stati. Alright. When Dominic Stati really took off as a bourbon infused cocktail to the point that was even prescribed medicinally in Memphis hospitals. And one of the ads that I've seen says it was prescribed by every physician in Memphis, not at the top, not exactly sure what they were treating, but if you've got one thing that you can prescribe to everybody for everything, then clearly it's popular. And that really set him apart from everybody else and maintained that side of the business for a very, very long time. Unfortunately, he died with the recipe. So when they discovered some of the original bottles when they were cleaning out some of the Canelli warehouses, they found a few bottles of it and they were like, this is interesting stuff. This was the stuff that again, was recommended for medical purposes by every physician.

(15:47):
They of course, crack the bottle because it's their great-great grandfather's whiskey, and you're talking about a hundred year old whiskey with rancid fruit in it. So of course it was terrible.

Speaker 3 (15:59):
Yes, yes.

Keith (16:01):
But it intrigued them enough to send the rest of the bottle to California where they had it reverse engineered. And that was the impetus for restarting the brand. Because keep in mind, 10 years ago, bourbon was really coming on strong and they were like, okay, let's bring this brand back, but let's start with this. So that's kind of where the whole toddy thing came from, and today it is one of our top sellers, and I can tell you it is most enjoyable on a really cold day when it's warmed up with a slice of lemon or a slice of orange in the bottom of a coffee cup

Drew H (16:39):
Or put a little cinon stick in there.

Keith (16:41):
Yes, absolutely. So, absolutely,

Drew H (16:43):
Yes. So let's talk a little bit about the tours, because I've been on that tour three times. I would have to say it's probably next to that. And Buffalo Trace, I think are the two distilleries I've toured the most. So obviously I enjoy that tour when I go and it's a beautiful building and how you've got it all set up there and a nice walkthrough. The one thing that stands out to me is that Tennessee, a lot of people probably don't completely understand the concept of Tennessee whiskey and how it is different from bourbon, and you sell both. You sell bourbon and you sell Tennessee whiskey. So when they're walking along on that tour, what will they see that will help visually show them what the difference is between the two?

Keith (17:31):
Other than the differences in the mashville, the biggest difference that makes it a whiskey a Tennessee whiskey are the rules of all the rules of bourbon. So 51 or more percent corn distilled at 160 proof or below in the barrel, 125 or below in a new chart, Oak Barrel, all of those criteria along with dripping the distillate through sugar maple charcoal, also known as the Lincoln County process. And what that does to your whiskey is takes out some of the fatty acid and some of the congenitals typically associated with bourbon. So in my opinion, what it does is it smooths it out. It just takes out a little bit of the bitterness that people naturally taste when you taste a straight bourbon. So those are the two biggest differences. Now making both on the tour, one of the things that I like to do is when I give the tour, I put those two side by side

Speaker 4 (18:36):
So

Keith (18:36):
You can contrast and compare the differences between Tennessee whiskey and bourbon. And for years, I only thought there were two brands of Tennessee whiskey, and I thought it was basically just a trademark. I didn't really realize the difference in the process at this point. There are so many great distilleries in this state that make Tennessee whiskey, and I think it's even gotten the attention of some of the bigger guys just north of us where they are starting to contract distill with some of the Tennessee distilleries to bring out their own versions of Tennessee whiskey.

Drew H (19:14):
I think the thing is, not a lot of the distilleries are showing off necessarily where that charcoal process is, but yours is right up front. We stood in front of it when you're doing it, but I think you guys also probably use the least amount of charcoal of anybody that I've seen.

Keith (19:31):
Well, and the trick there is there's no regulation as to how much or how deep or how much it has to hit. It just has to hit it.

Speaker 3 (19:42):
Yeah.

Keith (19:43):
Now, being a craft distillery, we certainly don't produce in the volumes that some of our friend distillers do, so we're able to use a lesser amount and kind of highlight it. And one of the interesting things that I do on my tours, especially if none of the production team is around watching me, I will bump the top of it so you can actually taste it when it comes out as a raw Tennessee whiskey after it's been filtered. And it's really pretty interesting because on our tours, that's what I enjoy doing is letting people taste things through the process, whether it's in fermentation or whether it's after it's distilled or of course at the end when we taste a final product after aging and the differences that the barrel characteristics will make.

Drew H (20:29):
Let's talk a little bit about the tasting. When you're doing a tasting, what you're highlighting there, one of the things that stood out to me actually is your gin, because I'm not a huge fan of juniper and it kept me away from gins for a long time, but yours tasted bit different. Can you talk through that and what makes it different?

Keith (20:52):
It's been interesting for me because as Juniper kept you away from the gen, my college days kept me away from gin, and so I was never a big gen fan. And when I first started working here, they were like, you got to try this gen. And I'm like, I'm not sure I can.

(21:08):
And they were like, well, listen, let's talk about gin, because gin has a hundred percent grain neutral spirit, so starting off as a hundred percent corn, the flavor comes from what's in the gin basket that's infused through vapor. And so we're going to use juniper, we're going to use chamomile, we're going to use Aris root, we're going to use a number of other things to give Jen this flavor. And when I asked the team about it, I was like, I still don't quite understand. And they're like, okay, well think about gin as the first flavored vodka. You've had flavored vodka before. Gin is the same way. It starts as a grain neutral spirit, a hundred percent corn, and all the flavors, again, come from what's in the gin basket that allows for a huge variety of gins just across the board, and also allows for some very specific types of flavoring. So having tried the gin, I don't believe I've ever had anything that I tasted so many different flavors in everything from licorice to grapefruit to ginger,

Drew H (22:14):
That licorice is what stood out to me. And I'm a big fan of licorice, so that was part of what drew me. I'm like, if this is what gin can be, I can get into that.

Keith (22:25):
Well, and that was the thing for me, and especially coming at it a 95 proof, so it's a little higher proof. And so I'm becoming a gin fan. Clearly in the summer it's much easier to drink, but I have friends of mine who enjoy it that tell me, this is a really great gin, and I trust their opinions on many things, and so I'm believing them in this as well. And so my experimentation and my research quote into Gin continues.

Drew H (22:55):
Yeah. Yeah. So what else are they tasting on the tour? Because when I went heeling station was the main thing you had and you hadn't come out with the stuff that you were distilling on site yet. So how has this evolved?

Keith (23:08):
So we started distilling here in 2017, and so naturally you have other things that you have to have spirits that you don't age to keep the lights on. So therefore you've got vodka and you've got Jim Gin we've spoken about. We make two types of vodka. We make what we call our Memphis vodka, which is our Tennessee Whiskey Mashville,

(23:34):
Which is 75% corn, 13% R, 12% malted barley. So with that mash bill distilled at 190 proof, we have vodka. One of other variations on our vodkas are Honey Bell vodka where we take that same distill it and we infuse it with essential oils of Honey Bell. And what is a honey bell? A honey bell is a cross between a tangerine and a grapefruit. It is a hybrid fruit. We get the essential oils out of Southern Florida, and we use it all year long to infuse into that vodka and gives it a very citrusy flavor. From there, we go into the Tennessee whiskey and into the bourbons and then usually into a cast strength. And then we end up with a tody because we kind of climb the proof mountain and come back down.

Drew H (24:25):
Yes, absolutely. Very nice. And one of the things that I think people will like about, whenever I think about going to a distillery that's in the middle of downtown, it's like, where am I going to park and how much am I going to have to pay the park? You actually have a nice little parking spot right to the side.

Keith (24:45):
We actually do. And we just in the last number of months completed black topping a new parking lot right beside the distillery. So

Speaker 3 (24:53):
Very

Keith (24:53):
Nice. We're able to accommodate many more visitors. We do have tours seven days a week from noon until as late as six o'clock being that beyond the barrel tour.

(25:08):
And so we are able to do that. Plus we host a number of events a year so that we needed that parking for all of our guests. So it's worked out very, very nicely. And it's camera so it's protected and it's just steps away from the front door. So there's never any issue. And there's always, thankfully there's always people around because as the bar continues to do very, very well here where we make some incredible old fashions. I mean, I was never a big fan of the Old Fashioned until I started having the ones that our bartenders make here. And I would tell you that I would believe they're the top three that I've ever had. I would say they're number one, but I don't want to be that pretentious and I want other people to decide. But there's a number of variations of those. Plus they have other seasonal drinks and everything that they make at the bar is produced onsite, whether it's a syrup or whether it's some of the liqueurs that they use or whether of course, the whiskeys.

Drew H (26:10):
Yeah, nice, comfortable place to sit and enjoy and chat with other travelers and really just soak it all in. And here maybe a little history as well. I mean, if you don't have time for a tour, I find it very nice to just sit in the bar. Well, Keith, thank you so much for all the great information, and I know I can highly recommend the distillery. If I'm in Memphis, I'm always going to stop in. So really enjoy it

Keith (26:36):
And we will always look forward to your visit along with anybody else. We'd love to share our story. We love to tell it and share our whiskeys. We're very, very proud of what we're able to produce locally, and we look forward to seeing everybody that wants to drop in and visit again. We're here seven days a week. The bar is open every day. The tours go from 12 to six o'clock. You're welcome to stop by.

Drew H (27:03):
Well, I hope you enjoyed this virtual flight to old Dominic in Memphis. It's a great place to either start or end your time in the Bluff City. And no worries if you are driving your car to the distillery. There is a nice, sizable paved parking lot just past the distillery on Front Street, and when planning the rest of your time downtown, there are plenty of affordable parking garages between Union and Beal Street and a lot of cool things to do downtown. I suggest actually just kind of hoofing it around. I personally like to walk down Beal Street and soak in some of the atmosphere. It's a short walk down to Handy Park where you can see the statue of the musical jazz and blues legend WC Handy. And they have concerts down there as well in the summertime. And it's not far from where the Peabody Hotel is.

(27:55):
Beautiful hotel. If you want to see how they used to construct hotels in the past, get a feel for the roaring 1920s. And if you get there at the right time of day, you can actually check out the ducks coming down the elevator and heading towards there waiting pond that is in the guest area and near the reception desks later in the day. You can watch them as they leave and go back on up the elevator. Now of course, Memphis is also known for barbecue, and you're going to find plenty places around to enjoy that. But I like to say the first time you go, you ought to stop in over at Burgers over on Beal Street. It is the home of the hamburger that has been made in 100-year-old Greece, which sounds like a health hazard, but it's definitely something worth checking out. Or you can go right across the street from old Dominic and get some chicken at a local joint.

(28:55):
I am a fan of trying to eat local as much as possible. Then if you've got enough energy worked up, you can take a long walk down towards Sun Studios where Johnny Cash, Elvis and Carl Perkins got their start. Or for more modern fans, if you like U2 and you saw the movie Rattle and Hum or listened to that album, some of their sessions were recorded there at Sun Studios. And then another great spot is to walk down along the riverfront where you can see the pyramid and the bridge to the island that was featured in the movie The Firm with Tom Cruise. Or if you want to use your imagination, you might stand up there on top of the bluff. Look down and think of the citizens of Memphis as they watched Davey Crockett make his last crossing of the Mississippi on a flatboat destined to meet his fate a few weeks later at the Alamo.

(29:54):
If I piqued your interest in the trip to Memphis and old Dominic, make sure you head out to whiskey lord.com/flights where you can view the profile of old Dominic and see whiskey Lord's growing list of worldwide distilleries that we're featuring on the show. And sign up for your free account. You can save old Dominic and any of the other distilleries that you hear about on the show. They're up to 600 distilleries worldwide featured within our whiskey lore database. And you'll find planning tools, maps, tour dates and booking links. And all you have to do is start your journey@whiskeylore.com slash flights. And if you enjoyed the history that Keith and I covered during today's interview, make sure to check out my new book, whiskey Lore Volume one for some myth busting or the Lost History of Tennessee Whiskey for the storied 250 year history of whiskey making in the state or Memphis specific stories about Bell Tavern Mcgon Brothers, the rise of dominant Canali and the Crazy Tales of Boss Crump.

(30:54):
You can find both books by heading to amazon.com or whiskey lo.com/books as we prepare to leave old Dominic in Memphis and make our way to our next destination. Let me give you my three reasons why I think you should have this distillery on your whiskey lore wishlist. First old Dominic has a solid tour that will take you past the bottling hall into a somewhat compact, full featured distillery. After checking out the fermenters, you'll head into the still house. You're going to get a firsthand glimpse of how whiskey flows through charcoal to make that Tennessee whiskey second old. Dominic is a great place to stop in multiple times. If you're spending a few days in downtown Memphis, enjoy a cocktail in the bar with friends, then grab a bottle of your favorite spirit from their well stocked gift shop. And third old Dominic held off on releasing their whiskey until just a couple of years ago, relying on sourced whiskey.

(31:56):
Interestingly enough, a nod to their heritage. But today, the whiskey that they make under the old Dominic label is very high quality whiskey worth sampling at the end of your tour, and then you can pick up a bottle in their beautiful gift shop to take home. Well, it's time to hit the road after my brief stop here in Memphis. After a three hour drive this morning from Paducah, Kentucky, I'm now going to cross the Mississippi River and take a six and a half hour drive west to north Texas for my next destination. A distillery that's celebrating its 10th year of making amazing whiskeys using french techniques. Find out which distillery this is by joining me next week as we head to stop number three on the great 48 tour. Make sure to secure your ticket to ride by being subscribed to the Whiskey Lo podcast. I'm your travel guy, drew Hanish. And until next time, cheers and slung of ah, the transcripts and travel information, including maps, distillery planning information and more. Head to whiskey lore.com/flights. Whiskey lore is a production of Travel Fuels Life, LLC.